Anton
I get that, and I accept that you weren't telling people what to do, but
only strongly recommending. It does surprise me, coming from you, just
from a rational perspective. I feel like if I told you I had invented a
method to mount a basket to a rack that cost nothing, weighed nothing, took
10 seconds to install and 2 seconds to remove, was flexible enough for
myriad orientations, was stronger than the basket itself, can't fail
catastrophically, lasted forever and used recyclable materials, I think you
would say "wow! tell me about it!" You dismiss my invention for one of
two reasons. Either you think I'm wrong about my representation of the
list of features, or you just don't like it because it's zipties. Both are
OK opinions for you to have. If I'm wrong about the feature list, I guess
I'd like to learn why I'm wrong. If it's opinion because it's a cheap
hack, then there's nothing to discuss.
Bill
On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 12:23:08 PM UTC-7, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> You interpreted my post ("please, please don't use zip-ties") as being
> directed toward you since you posted about using zip-ties, when in fact it
> was directed at the original poster, who is/was (maybe not now after this
> debate?) asking about a Wald basket for his daughter's bike. The "please,
> please don't" was simply rhetoric for "I don't recommend", but again, and
> more importantly, it was directed at the OP, not you. Whether or not you
> had posted your zip-tie comment before I posted in this thread, I would
> have made the same comment against using zip-ties. I know you to make sound
> decisions regarding the build details of your own bikes, but that doesn't
> mean I won't disagree, especially when an inquiry is made that invites
> suggestions.
>
> Anton
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:52:22 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Will
>>
>> Thanks for that response. I use 8 zipties to attach my basket to my
>> rack. If one of them failed, I'd see it. It's right there in front of my
>> face. It would take all 8 failing to fall off my rack. I'm not worried
>> about it, but I do pay attention to it. If one breaks and I replace it, I
>> promise I will report about it. :-) I also run an Irish strap around the
>> tombstone and basket and my handlebar, a cheap hack safety recommendation I
>> picked up from the BLUG, and from multiple Riv employees. You can kind of
>> see it here:
>>
>> Strapped <https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/26121289280>
>>
>> I agree that maybe Anton and Masmojo both didn't mean what they said when
>> they told me to stop using zipties. Grant never says "stop using your
>> carbon fork" or "stop using your carbon bicycle" or "stop using skinny
>> tires". He only gives reasons why he thinks you shouldn't use those
>> products. If you don't think they are valid reasons you won't be
>> convinced. If you do think they are valid reasons, you will be convinced.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 11:36:59 AM UTC-7, Will wrote:
>>>
>>> I dunno Bill... and I've always wondered why Riv advocates zip-ties on
>>> baskets. They are so dead set that carbon forks are bad because of the
>>> safety thing.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that if your zip ties fail and you dump a basket of stuff
>>> into your wheel, or your basket connection fails and that interfers with
>>> your steering control at speed... well I dunno, it seems inconsistant to
>>> me. If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket
>>> connection.
>>>
>>> Consider the level of vibration the zip ties must mitigate. Clearly
>>> there is an opportunity for failure.
>>>
>>> As for Anton and Masmojo.... GP has a whole slew of things he does not
>>> condone... skinny tires, carbon anything, big ring chainwheels, undignified
>>> paint schemes, short chainstays, low spoke wheels, low trail front ends,
>>> etc.... just saying... :-)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Masmojo,
>>>>
>>>> You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use
>>>> them. To paraphrase Yogi Berra: "If people don't want to use zipties,
>>>> nobody's going to stop them". Link to original Yogi Berra quote
>>>> <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/y/yogiberra447736.html>
>>>>
>>>> The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop
>>>> using something that they like using. Maybe you and Anton just didn't
>>>> mean
>>>> what you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said
>>>> "please please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and
>>>> respectfully
>>>> recommend that you mind your own business. On these boards, it's
>>>> perfectly
>>>> fine to say that you use something and why you like it. It's perfectly
>>>> fine to say why you don't use something. It's fine to say "I don't
>>>> recommend using such and such and here's why". It's fine to say "I won't
>>>> use that" and not give any reason. But, when you tell people that you
>>>> don't condone me using something, or when Anton begs me to stop using
>>>> something that I like, I say "stay in your lane". I will use what I like.
>>>> If you want to educate me about things that I'm overlooking because you
>>>> want me to change my mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and
>>>> educate me. I reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for
>>>> temporary applications. People use zipties for cable management on their
>>>> solar panels for 20 years plus. They don't die from UV, they don't fail,
>>>> and that's not temporary. If your only reason is you think zipties on a
>>>> Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason. If you
>>>> want
>>>> to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to my Nitto Rack
>>>> that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, easier to remove
>>>> and
>>>> similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate me. I'm not receptive to
>>>> people telling me to stop using a product with no compelling reason.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:16:00 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Two things
>>>>> First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the
>>>>> basket on for several weeks or months even & taking it off again I would
>>>>> fully endorse and condone using them, BUT if it's a basket that'll be on
>>>>> there for 5 years! NO! And I don't think there's anything Rivendellish
>>>>> about it. Quick easy fixes are intended to be temporary in nature like
>>>>> the
>>>>> Bandaid or the rubber band.
>>>>> Secondly, I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for
>>>>> routing the brake cable!!!! Oh my!!! ;-) but, at least no zip ties!
>>>>>
>>>>>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
