Mark, the only reason I mention the bar/saddle height relationship thing is because of my experience using it with the albastaches. The same theory from the expanded sizing that lets the bars come back at you fast as they come up thanks to slack head tubes also makes them go away from you fast as they go down. Not a problem with Boscos, with 4" of rise and 9" of sweep I need them basically slammed still myself. But without that 9" of sweep, if you're generally more fond of shorter reaches like I am there's only so much a shorter stem can do, most of shortening the reach on a Clem is by raising the bars, and they can get quite high indeed. Going lower os much more difficult depending on which end of a frame size you're on. I think wanting less sweep plus shortish reach on a Clem basically necessitates taller bars because of the design, is all.
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