Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more sense if someone can be found and made available at any time.
All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me. Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join" will make that problem go away too. On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I > think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people > can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too) > and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's > easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a > specific email requires potentially changing that email address when > the responsibility changes. > > Does that seem like a reasonable approach? > > Sam > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: >> No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out. >> >> On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote: >> >> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here. I'm happy with whatever >> you folks decide is best! >> >> Robby >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Makes sense. >>> >>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups >>> >>> Ask to join >>> >>> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving them. >>> Member starts process in Google Groups >>> >>> Invite only >>> >>> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As >>> Sam said, strangers can't start that process. >>> >>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to be >>> "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is relevant >>> for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process in Google >>> Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address? >>> >>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote: >>> >>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We >>> could post an email address or two there where asks should go? >>> >>> Robby >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the >>>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who >>>> is already a member and ask them to join. >>>> >>>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join. >>>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but >>>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position. >>>> >>>> Sam >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this writing, >>>>> the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter between >>>>> the non-members and members. The public can no longer let themselves in. >>>>> >>>>> Not totally out of the woods yet. >>>>> >>>>> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> >>>>> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me. >>>>> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a bunch >>>>> of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough to make >>>>> this unlikely. >>>>> >>>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to >>>>> delete my emails. :) >>>>> >>>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very >>>>> recently. No clue why) >>>>> >>>>> — Matthias >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> +1! Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> Robby >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way >>>>>> to improve the situation! >>>>>> >>>>>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +0000, Sage Gerard wrote: >>>>>>> Core team, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, even >>>>>>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is why >>>>>>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer. >>>>>>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group >>>>>>> posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a >>>>>>> comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email addresses >>>>>>> are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. After >>>>>>> checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I >>>>>>> hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and >>>>>>> cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and >>>>>>> another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop >>>>>>> automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. We >>>>>>> can have ________ issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in the >>>>>>> blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings >>>>>>> accordingly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with respect >>>>>>> for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing list >>>>>>> privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will >>>>>>> leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent >>>>>>> interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit the >>>>>>> role my email address plays for the spammer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am not >>>>>>> commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. Between >>>>>>> the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not >>>>>>> sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, I'd >>>>>>> advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can >>>>>>> focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed >>>>>>> speed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me know, and thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc >>>>>>> e8fe%40sagegerard.com. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOMCXH4Zio1%2B96Nj_Zgj2vByetG-%3D8i93%3DLYjTpaBrw8DA%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/649B3011-618B-466E-AE20-B4C13629CA71%40felleisen.org. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ef18d8d4-0305-1cf9-f657-434c19843dc2%40sagegerard.com. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BbpujcR6Zsc3n-PY9L-vQUZGJV3uGoNNidu8tE27s_oJQ%40mail.gmail.com. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Racket Users" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOM8V1kS79gXomX%3DPqMVKLeXM491M60xq7C6dHz%2B0o6bTw%40mail.gmail.com. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Racket Users" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/d264f944-750a-5329-96f2-1fd2fac7ba31%40sagegerard.com. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Racket Users" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOO%2BEW5Y_WOLGqX1_%3DJKxGTJhvi5aaRANn%2BfbY0M3hQ92w%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Racket Users" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/b7bcf283-77d6-9df5-e2d6-c0729e8a93a2%40sagegerard.com. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BabPN9hbbCjxX5rcqPD6qTP17fZ8aFxYnhTggbvgSS6XA%40mail.gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/17ffe8b4-9277-9f17-5fe3-32a13d0f40b7%40sagegerard.com.
