Both racket-users and racket-dev have just now been changed to "Anyone can ask."
On 1/12/22 1:17 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: >> Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers >> were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more >> sense if someone can be found and made available at any time. >> >> All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying >> changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me. > I think if you're good with this approach, you should move forward with it. > > Sam > >> Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes >> disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join" >> will make that problem go away too. >> >> On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> >>> Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I >>> think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people >>> can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too) >>> and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's >>> easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a >>> specific email requires potentially changing that email address when >>> the responsibility changes. >>> >>> Does that seem like a reasonable approach? >>> >>> Sam >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out. >>>> >>>> On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote: >>>> >>>> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here. I'm happy with whatever >>>> you folks decide is best! >>>> >>>> Robby >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Makes sense. >>>>> >>>>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups >>>>> >>>>> Ask to join >>>>> >>>>> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving >>>>> them. Member starts process in Google Groups >>>>> >>>>> Invite only >>>>> >>>>> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As >>>>> Sam said, strangers can't start that process. >>>>> >>>>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to >>>>> be "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is >>>>> relevant for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process >>>>> in Google Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address? >>>>> >>>>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We >>>>> could post an email address or two there where asks should go? >>>>> >>>>> Robby >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the >>>>>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who >>>>>> is already a member and ask them to join. >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join. >>>>>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but >>>>>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sam >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this >>>>>>> writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter >>>>>>> between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let >>>>>>> themselves in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not totally out of the woods yet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> >>>>>>> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me. >>>>>>> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a >>>>>>> bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough >>>>>>> to make this unlikely. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to >>>>>>> delete my emails. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very >>>>>>> recently. No clue why) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> — Matthias >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1! Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Robby >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way >>>>>>>> to improve the situation! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +0000, Sage Gerard wrote: >>>>>>>>> Core team, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is >>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer. >>>>>>>>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group >>>>>>>>> posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a >>>>>>>>> comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email >>>>>>>>> addresses >>>>>>>>> are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. >>>>>>>>> After >>>>>>>>> checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I >>>>>>>>> hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and >>>>>>>>> cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and >>>>>>>>> another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop >>>>>>>>> automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> can have ________ issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings >>>>>>>>> accordingly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with >>>>>>>>> respect >>>>>>>>> for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing >>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>> privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will >>>>>>>>> leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent >>>>>>>>> interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> role my email address plays for the spammer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. >>>>>>>>> Between >>>>>>>>> the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not >>>>>>>>> sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, >>>>>>>>> I'd >>>>>>>>> advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can >>>>>>>>> focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed >>>>>>>>> speed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let me know, and thank you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups >>>>>>>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an >>>>>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc >>>>>>>>> e8fe%40sagegerard.com. >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOMCXH4Zio1%2B96Nj_Zgj2vByetG-%3D8i93%3DLYjTpaBrw8DA%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/649B3011-618B-466E-AE20-B4C13629CA71%40felleisen.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ef18d8d4-0305-1cf9-f657-434c19843dc2%40sagegerard.com. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BbpujcR6Zsc3n-PY9L-vQUZGJV3uGoNNidu8tE27s_oJQ%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOM8V1kS79gXomX%3DPqMVKLeXM491M60xq7C6dHz%2B0o6bTw%40mail.gmail.com. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/d264f944-750a-5329-96f2-1fd2fac7ba31%40sagegerard.com. >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOO%2BEW5Y_WOLGqX1_%3DJKxGTJhvi5aaRANn%2BfbY0M3hQ92w%40mail.gmail.com. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Racket Users" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/b7bcf283-77d6-9df5-e2d6-c0729e8a93a2%40sagegerard.com. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Racket Users" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BabPN9hbbCjxX5rcqPD6qTP17fZ8aFxYnhTggbvgSS6XA%40mail.gmail.com. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Racket Users" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/17ffe8b4-9277-9f17-5fe3-32a13d0f40b7%40sagegerard.com. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BY%3Dfj45aJS%2BS9QRy3zwkqXtJ7Qngn6BJyhf0-jurLNMWA%40mail.gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. 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