Profanity isn't that complicated. A single paragraph, that says, "GFY" is profanity. It is an acronym and unlike the RTFM acronym, it's actual meaning is meant as full value. That's what I'm referring to. Alex Miller P.S. I wasn't quoting anyone, or if I did that was a typo. I was SAYing "Don't think that the behavior on this list isn't completely public, and potentially newsworthy." Them's my words ;-) Of course, technically, NOW I'm quoting myself, or quoting you quoting me .... escher ... esch .... e .... P.P.S. > But I made sure to read the text, man pages, and other documents befor askin. I did. And I printed them out. And I highlighted the important parts. And I used a pencil for a checklist, and I posted questions on many things that weren't clear. Does that mean I thought of all the man pages I could have printed, no, it doesn't. It does mean that I read the manual. > -----Original Message----- > From: Durham, Kenneth J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 12:24 PM > To: 'Alex Miller'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: Howto > > > Alex, > As you quoted "Don't think that the behavior on this list isn't > completely public, and potentially newsworthy." This is a very public > mailing list and from what i remember freedom of speach is still > in affect. > One of the greatist things in america is that if someone does not like > something or does not agree with someone, they can voice there > opinion even > though it may be taken as profanity, or offensive. You take > remarks the way > you feel. Others may make comments and take them in a diffrent mannor. > Please understand the guys on here, especialy the ones that have helped me > out in the past thanks guys, Just expect the minimal from you. By common > sense you should know to read all documentations via web pages, man files, > and or any text files availible befor askin someone a question. Imagine > this. If someone called General Motors but does not know how to drive > example > > General Motors doesn't have a help line for people who don't know how > > to drive. Imagine if they did... > > HelpLine: General Motors HelpLine, how can I help you? > > Customer: I got in my car and closed the door and nothing happened! > > HelpLine: Did you put the key in the ignition slot and turn it? > > Customer: What's an ignition? > > HelpLine: It's a starter motor that draws current from your battery > and turns over the engine. > > Customer: Ignition? Motor? Battery? Engine? How come I have to know > all these technical terms just to use my car? > > This is what would happen. How can someone help this person if they dont > know the basics. I do admit that I did ask some dumb questions. > But I made > sure to read the text, man pages, and other documents befor askin. Just a > FYI for later > Ken > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 9:05 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Howto > > > Actually, > > Things I find objectionable: > > RTFM, particularly, when the issue is misunderstanding what was > read, or not > having the right prior knowledge, instead of when the user didn't actually > read the manual. In India, confessions are prohibited in the > courts because > it is recognized that their use leads to sloppy or inhumane efforts by the > police. RTFM should be just as excluded, since it is generally misapplied. > On my list, [EMAIL PROTECTED], RTFM comments will be prohibited. I > should clarify, RTFM is not the same as, for example, Dave Sill's > generally > helpful pointers to relevant manual entries, specifically, often > by number. > RTFM is an accost, an assault, the F in it is actually a profanity. The > lecturing about "why don't you try to understand" is an accost. > > Berating someone from discussing a topic that is not of personal > interest to > one reader. Once Mate pointed out, last week, that a firewall might be the > cause of remote servers I didn't post much and spent my spare > time, reading > up on firewalls and watching the list to see what other people were > experiencing with it. Sure enough, someone brings it up, only to be > squelched with complaints about the subject. When I pointed out that I was > very interested in other people's security problems, particularly in their > QMail setups I was told that it's inappropriate. What was it you > said Adam, > "there are no MTA-specific issues relating to firewalls" (oh, is > that not an > exact quote, well excuse me) > > Profanity > Unacceptable on a mailing list. > > Threats of law suits > should I elaborate? > > This stuff is very visible. Don't think that the behavior on this > list isn't > completely public, and potentially newsworthy. There are lot's of people > starting to learn LINUX, set up KDE, etc. What should they > expect? What kind > of experience will it be for them if they try to install some new > software? > Will it be like an example experience with QMail? People should write to > mailing lists as if their comments are going to be published, as > examples of > the good and the bad in the internet world. > > Already, I'm making a web page (a helpful one) for things that beginners > should know who want to install QMail. Already, the list on it, "Adam's > List" is taking shape, and will be useful. I've learned a lot > already, from > soliciting it, and will learn plenty more, following those man pages and > collecting them onto a web page. So even from Adam's efforts to be hostile > something good can come from it. > > Alex Miller > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Adam D. McKenna [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 10:54 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Howto > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 07:50:32AM -0700, Durham, Kenneth J wrote: > > > Being a newbi as alex in qmail an other things. You guys have > > to understand > > > that alot of the manuals are made for linux users and not > > newbies. The text > > > as well as explination of alot of the commands do not make any > > sense at all > > > to someone that is new. If the manuals were also out with text > > that were in > > > simpler terms which others that are not gurus can understand > > > > I've noticed something in my years on internet mailing lists - > the tone in > > which a question is answered usually matches the tone in which it > > is asked. > > > > I don't think anyone here had a problem with alex asking > > questions. I think > > that they had a problem with his accusatory tone and whining > when he found > > out that he actually had to do a little reading in order to > > accomplish what > > he wanted to do. He hasn't let up with this attitude yet. > It's like he's > > Scott Jr. or something. > > > > --Adam > > >
