I wonder if Lua would be a better option. Does it suffer from the same sandboxing issues that python does?
On Sunday, 13 November 2016 17:38:23 UTC-8, Nathan Ernst wrote: > In regards to performance of Lua vs Python, I don't have enough (near zero > experience) with Lua to comment there. > > But in regards to embedding in a game, the only experience I have w/ Python > being embedded is while working on modding Civilization IV. What I saw > there just made me nauseous. > > The reasoning for moving to Lua in Civilization V was performance & memory > usage - but they completely screwed up exposing the C++ internals to Python > in Civ IV. They copied object instances & containers to the Python > embedded, then marshalled them back to the C++ code when the Python code > was finished. It was horribly inefficient. > > I don't have much experience hosting Python inside of a C/C++ app, but I've > 10 years of experience consuming C++ APIs from Python, mostly wrapped using > Boost Python. I always did my best to minimize data marshalling. The Python > objects exposed the C++ objects' interface, directly while holding a > pointer (usually shared) to underlying C++ objects and only marshalling on > method/property calls where needed (i.e. w/ strings, dates, datetimes). > Containers were wrapped to expose a Python interface to an underlying C++ > container w/ no copying. > > TLDR; Civilization IV shows an antipattern about how to embed Python in a > native app and expecting anything resembling good performance. Civ IV used > Boost Python, but they did it in an extremely poor, suboptimal fashion. > Boost Python itself can be very performant, and I love the library. Boost > Python, however does suffer from a learning curve that is akin to > attempting to scale a 1000ft cliff with no rope or tools or even shoes. Due > to the heavy use of template metaprogramming in C++, compiler errors if > you're even just slightly off can be extremely hard to decipher. I've not > used it lately or on modern compilers, so I don't know if it's gotten > better, but tools like pretty_make.py (can find on github) can help filter > out the compiler spewage from the real compiler error. > > PS. I don't think that Python couldn't/shouldn't be used for scripting a > game, I'm just offering up Civ IV as an example of how it can be done > horribly wrong. > > Regards, > Nate > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Steve D'Aprano > > <steve+pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote: > > > On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 12:23 am, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > > > >> Python without its stdlib is a disappointingly featureless > > >> language :) > > > > > > > > > I don't think that's true. You can do a lot in Python without any > > imports in > > > your code: > > > > > > - basic string processing > > > - BigNum (int) and float arithmetic > > > - lists and tuples > > > - dicts > > > - lazy processing of iterators > > > - custom functions and classes > > > - functional style zip, map and filter > > > > > > and more. > > > > > > Some parts of the standard library are required for built-in functions, > > e.g. > > > the io module is needed to open files. But I think you could probably > > > reduce the standard library by, oh, 90% and still have a decent language > > > for game scripting. > > > > Perhaps what would be more accurate is that Python without its stdlib > > is as featureless as (say) Lua, but still without being safe to embed. > > Yes, it's technically usable, but you really don't have a lot. And > > remember, some of the stdlib is what we call builtins; if you embed > > Python and engage "restricted mode", it's by emptying out the > > builtins. You're pretty much down to three things: > > > > 1) Stuff that you could pass to ast.literal_eval > > 2) Control flow statements > > 3) Hacks that get you around the limitations, thus proving that > > Python-without-stdlib is really really hard to actually test anything > > with. > > > > ChrisA > > -- > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
