On Aug 30, 2013, at 1:05 AM, "R.I.Pienaar" <[email protected]> wrote:

> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Luke Kanies" <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:27:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: Anchor pattern (was Re: [Puppet-dev] Puppet 4 discussions)
>> 
>> On Aug 29, 2013, at 12:24 PM, John Bollinger <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:56:45 PM UTC-5, Andy Parker wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Luke Kanies <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Aug 28, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Andy Parker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Luke Kanies <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> On Aug 28, 2013, at 8:45 AM, Andy Parker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>  * #8040 - anchor pattern. I think a solution is in sight, but it
>>>>>  didn't make 3.3.0 and it is looking like it might be backwards
>>>>>  incompatible.
>>>> 
>>>> Why would it be incompatible?
>>>> 
>>>> That implies that we can't ship it until 4.0, which would be a tragedy
>>>> worth fighting hard to avoid.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The only possible problem, that I know of, would be that it would change
>>>> the evaluation order. Once things get contained correctly that might
>>>> cause problems. We never give very strong guarantees between versions of
>>>> puppet, but given the concern with manifest order, I thought that I would
>>>> call this out as well.
>>> 
>>> Do you mean, for 2 classes that should have a relationship but currently
>>> don't because of the bug (and the lack of someone using an anchor pattern
>>> to work around the bug), fixing that bug would cause them to have a
>>> relationship and thus change the order?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> No that shouldn't be a problem. I think we will be using making the
>>> resource syntax for classes ( class { foo: } ) create the containment
>>> relationship. That doesn't allow multiple declarations and so we shouldn't
>>> encounter the problem of the class being in two places.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> But it does allow multiple declarations, so long as only the first one
>>> parsed uses the parameterized syntax.  There can be any number of other
>>> places where class foo is declared via the include() function or require()
>>> function.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That is, you're concerned that the bug has been around so long it's
>>> considered a feature, and thus we can't change it except in a major
>>> release?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> More of just that the class will start being contained in another class and
>>> so it will change where it is evaluated in an agent run. That could cause
>>> something that worked before to stop working (it only worked before
>>> because of random luck). I'm also, right now, wondering if there are
>>> possible dependency cycles that might show up. I haven't thought that one
>>> through.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, it is possible that dependency cycles could be created where none
>>> existed before.  About a week ago I added an example to the comments
>>> thread on this issue; it is part of a larger objection to the proposed
>>> solution: http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/8040#note-35.  I also
>>> included a proposed alternative solution that could go into Puppet 3.
>> 
>> As mentioned in my other email, the solution to this problem should not in
>> any way require changes to containment semantics, and certainly shouldn't
>> require class evaluation to indicate class containment.  As I said, it used
>> to do that for the first instance (but not for second, which led to some
>> inconsistencies and surprises, which is why I removed it).  These days,
>> though, in general classes only contain resources, not other classes.  What
> 
> I am not sure I follow and have missed some of this thread while on hols but
> here is why people use the anchor pattern:
> 
> class one { 
>  include two
> 
>  notify{$name: }
> }
> 
> class two {
>  notify{$name: }
> }
> 
> class three { 
>   notify{$name: require => Class["one"]}
> }
> 
> include one, three
> 
> $ puppet apply test.pp
> Notice: /Stage[main]/One/Notify[one]/message: defined 'message' as 'one'
> Notice: /Stage[main]/Three/Notify[three]/message: defined 'message' as 'three'
> Notice: /Stage[main]/Two/Notify[two]/message: defined 'message' as 'two'
> Notice: Finished catalog run in 0.11 seconds
> 
> The desired outcome is that Notify[two] is before Notify[three]
> 
> So unless I am reading you wrong, the anchor pattern is used specifically 
> because
> today many people have classes contained in other classes and it does not work
> as desired.

If you want a specific order, there are plenty of tools for achieving that; in 
this particular case, you should use 'require two' instead of 'include two' (or 
include it, then use something like Class[two] -> Class[three], but…)

I.e., there's nothing to work around in this case, it already works.

The anchor bug is something you actually have to work around.

> Also I think fixing this only for the new resource like syntax and not for
> include would be a mistake - though i can see why that would be the chosen
> path as doing it otherwise would easily create loops etc.

I don't know where this is coming from; I made no mention of differentiating 
between the two, and I can't imagine a solution that would or could do so.

-- 
Luke Kanies | http://about.me/lak | http://puppetlabs.com/ | +1-615-594-8199

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