Bill you have the idea, just bear in mind they sell new product but act like USED car salesmen
Yesterday I sat thru the demo of OADS 5.02 and their new Schematic package PADS Design, you'de be amazed how many new features loked to my mind to be stolen/copied directly from Protel 99SE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brooks,Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation? > I'm sure they were former auto salesmen ... 'oh, you want brakes with it... > well that's the diamond option, and a steering wheel? Well you need the > platinum option...' etc... etc.. > > > Bill Brooks > PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I. > Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:35 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation? > > Mike, > > You left out the surprise that Dimensioning is also an OPTION, yes it is > designed for and by marketing/sales guys, must be a dream for some of them, > lest we forget the maintenance fee is also relative to number of options > > Joe > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "edsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:47 PM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation? > > > > I am in agreement with Bill Brooks and his comments about PADS. I too own > a seat of PADS. Unfortunately for $8500 I can't use it. DXF is an option, > design rules are a $4K option and get this.....copy and paste is an option. > GONG! piece of crap for $8500. > > > > If you asked me several years ago about Protel, I would stack it against > anything ( providing you never attempted to user the router). The main > advantage was user interface and getting up to speed. There is no clear > advantage to other products. DXP is as cumbersome and awkward to use as > PCAD, Cadence, or Mentor. So given that all is equal > > Mentor is the clear winner. > > > > Altium better start to listen to folks like Ray. Ray came to the same > conclusions that everyone else has about DXP without anyone holding a > prompter if front of him. Ray's statement are pretty significant from a > marketing standpoint > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Reagan > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > > From: "Brooks,Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:12:42 -0700 > > > > >Ray, > > > > > >I made the mistake that you are considering before. The group I was with > in > > >Temecula bought Pads on my misguided recommendation... I was taken in by > the > > >demo. The guys made it look so easy, then when I got the software and > > >realized they sold me a package that was stripped down compared to the > one > > >they demonstrated... I saw red. If I wanted the package that did all the > > >fancy stuff like interactive routing and push and shove placement.... > etc, I > > >would have to pay thousands more for the 'add-ons'. The total would come > to > > >about 22K... we chose not to by more stuff, but to try to get along with > > >what we bought. I cussed aloud many times when trying to learn to use the > > >software on my own. I took a 1 day compressed class and that didn't help > > >much either... > > > > > >Pads is functional, if not confusing... and if you don't know any tool it > > >can be fine, you just need to allow yourself 6 months to a year to get it > to > > >be really useful. Learning all the 'work arounds' can be a full time job, > > >and very frustrating when you have a job to get done. I spent a lot of > time > > >on the phone with the tech support guy in Los Angeles, He speaks with a > > >Russian accent to boot. That was not fun when he was out on sales > calls... > > > > > >The thing I am trying to say is, Protel was what we purchased after > fighting > > >with the PADS program for a month and a half. PADS would not take back > their > > >software, so we had to eat the 12 grand we invested in that software. > Later > > >I took a class at Palomar College that was using PADS and walked through > a > > >full semester of training with the package and still I don't like it, but > I > > >was able to use it. It's a frustrating package for a guy like me who > expects > > >to find the print command under the word, print. There's was buried in > some > > >dialog box that had no reference to printing at all. > > > > > >Protel has been a better software package than the PADS program was for > me, > > >mostly because Protel was more intuitive to use, I spent less time > looking > > >for a command or feature than I did with PADS and it was easier to use > and > > >it let me undo mistakes which PADS was notorious for NOT letting me do. > > > > > >The new 2004 product remains to be seen... I would be patient and don't > get > > >too discouraged with all the talk you hear on this forum... some of us > are > > >real idealists... I think I'm included in that group. > > > > > >As soon as I can get the time to spend on kicking the tires on the new > > >software I will let you know what I think of where we are with Protel. > > >In the mean time you can ask specific questions about the functionality > on > > >this forum and you might consider get the training class that Matthew > > >Berggren does on Protel if you can. It was helpful in getting a better > sense > > >of what the software can do and where you can go with it. Although I > found > > >when I was learning Protel that a local designer who had been using it > since > > >version 2.0 was more savvy and had better 'tricks' for being productive > with > > >it than I got anywhere else. > > > > > >I have been using Protel since version 98 and that was in 1998. It's not > a > > >bad package. There are just some features I wish it had that are less > than > > >perfect, but hopefully they will iron those out in the future. > > > > > >Feel free to give me a call if you need help. Or just publish your > questions > > >here and you have a lot of years of PROTEL experience here at your > > >fingertips with all these great guys and gals listening in. They will be > > >glad to help and discuss your issues I'm sure and even some of them are > > >programmers who will write user commands that you can use to get better > > >productivity out of the software. > > > > > >(Okay, so now I am an apologist for the Altium company... so shoot me...) > > > > > > > > >Actually, the best combo I have used so far in this price range is the > Orcad > > >schematic package with the Protel PCB editor and the Specctra Autorouter > and > > >AutoCad for the drafting of mechanical things like board outlines, > > >dimensions, etc... > > > > > >We use the schematic package here that comes with Protel and we get by > with > > >it. Have for the last 3 years. > > > > > > > > >Bill Brooks > > >PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I. > > >TITAN CORPORATION > > >DATRON WORLD COMMUNICATIONS DIVISION > > >3030 Enterprise Court, Vista, CA 92083 > > >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Website: > http://www.titan.com/business_units/index.html?organization_id=81 > > >Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 > > >_______________________________________ > > >Member of the San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council > > >Communications Officer, Web Manager > > >http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/ > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Ray Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:42 AM > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >Subject: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation? > > > > > >Our group has used Protel for years. I've tried to get everyone to > change > > >to something else for most of that time but the resistance has been > fairly > > >great. It seems that the the philosophy has been that pain you know is > > >preferable to the pain you don't know. However, with the introduction of > > >DXP/2004 everyone is starting to realize that a good tool is needed. Is > > >there something that is generally considered to be the best? I realize > > >that some of the tools cost significantly more but when the frustration, > > >poor results, and wasted time are considered, it may not actually be that > > >expensive. One of the guys here uses PADS and really likes it. If we > make > > >a change we don't want to make the same mistake we made with Protel > again. > > > > > >Ray Mitchell > > >Engineer, Code 2732 > > >SPAWAR Systems Center > > >San Diego, CA. 92152 > > >(619)553-5344 > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
