ditto this snip below for us and we haven't gotten 2004 yet either although we did the access code in the mail and that was over a week ago
> I went back to Protel and made the transition from 99SE to DXP. I don't > know why they didn't just fix 99SE instead of basically starting over. > Trying to use DXP at first made me feel like a complete idiot, it is a > resource hog (my 1GHZ computer is too slow?) and the software still > isn't quite finished (I am still waiting for 2004, hopefully it is > better). This has been very painful, but at least it wasn't $40k a > seat! at $40K you can get a pretty nice car wrapped around a seat PADs charging for the copy/paste *is* pretty outrageous do they charge for mouse support or file save as too? Dennis Saputelli Cliff Gerhard wrote: > > Bill, I think your opinion about Mentor is spot on. > > Sorry long rant ahead.... > > A few years back, I took a job managing the layout department (among > other things) for a company that had been using PADs for several years. > One of my jobs was to pick new CAD software because they were very tired > of PADs. The one that really got me was when I asked PADs about cutting > and pasting. I had an op amp circuit that was similar to one that we > had done on another board. I wanted to copy it to the new design. It > would only copy the components. All of the traces would be removed. > They came back with "you need our design re-use package". $4k + > Maintenance to cut and paste! Unreal! > > We had also been bitten several times by software bugs (DRC and Gerber > generation) that caused very expensive and time critical boards to be > scrapped. I was personally using Protel at the time, but it was not > even considered because they wanted a "high end" tool. > > We were using Cadence for IC development (well into six figures for > those tools!) and I was under some pressure to pick the Cadence PCB > tools. All of the engineers (about 20) were using OrCAD (which had just > been bought by Cadence) and we didn't want all of the engineers to have > to learn a new schematic capture program, so we also needed to be able > to use OrCAD as a front end for a while at least. > > The tools from Cadence and Mentor were not well integrated at all at > that time. They had both been gobbling up smaller companies and adding > bits and pieces to their software into their existing products. Many > different and non-intuitive ways to do the same thing. > > I did my research and it was very much like dealing with used car > salesmen. A very unpleasant experience. At the time, Mentor had just > picked up Veribest and their interactive manual routing was very > impressive. We had to maintain all of our old PADs designs and both > salesmen (Cadence and Mentor) assured me, in writing, that they had a > working PADs translator and it would not be an issue. > > I made the decision to go with Mentor. The cost was about $80k for two > seats. We immediately had problems. The PADs \translator was non > functional for quite some time and we had a bunch of problems trying to > use Orcad Netlists. You had to have an error free netlist loaded to > even place a part on a new board! > > Once we placed the P.O., we needed support to get through these issues. > Tech support and the leghumping salesman, who had been calling me > several times a day prior to getting the P.O. signed, were now taking > days to return my calls. At one point, I feared that I might loose my > job over the decision. After about a year (no exaggeration) the layout > people were finally getting up to speed with the tools and fairly happy > with them. These were very sharp people and excellent designers too. > > I have since moved on and am now back with a small product development > company. I was again faced with the problem of choosing a CAD system. > We do not have the deep pockets to afford the "high end" tools. After > my experience with Mentor, I am not sure I would have considered it even > if we could afford it. > > I went back to Protel and made the transition from 99SE to DXP. I don't > know why they didn't just fix 99SE instead of basically starting over. > Trying to use DXP at first made me feel like a complete idiot, it is a > resource hog (my 1GHZ computer is too slow?) and the software still > isn't quite finished (I am still waiting for 2004, hopefully it is > better). This has been very painful, but at least it wasn't $40k a > seat! > > I hope Protel is not bailing out of the "shrink wrapped" CAD market. > There isn't much else out there for us who can't afford (or don't need) > the high dollar tools. If they are putting all their eggs in the > embedded system business I can't see them surviving too much longer. > Then I guess I'll be back to that familiar place of having to pick a new > CAD system. > > o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o > Cliff Gerhard, P.E. > E-M Designs, Inc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brooks,Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:48 PM > To: 'Protel EDA Forum' > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation? > > I'm sure they were former auto salesmen ... 'oh, you want brakes with > it... well that's the diamond option, and a steering wheel? Well you > need the platinum option...' etc... etc.. > > Bill Brooks > PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I. > Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 > -- _______________________________________________________________________ Integrated Controls, Inc. 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