On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:23:41AM -0500, knarf wrote: > Well first of all, I'm not signing on to flickr to see your sets. I assure you, neither flickr, nor even my naked body, is quite that objectionable. Although there may be some debate on both of those issues.
> However kudos to you for posting nude males. You're welcome. I generally photograph the people who ask me to photograph them, in whatever manner they ask me to photograph them. I will note that as I understand it, Bruce's nudes were women who specifically asked him to photograph them, not women that he solicited to be nude models. I'm willing to bet that he has never turned down a nude model because of the plumbing between their legs. > > It's a start. Something that you could do as well. With the amount of bicycling that you do, you would undoubtably make a far better photographic subject than I. Or, better yet, post an invitation to your circle of friends to photograph anyone that wants, clothed or naked. > > And I disagree about nudity. It's always sexual, presuming that genitalia or > other erogenous bits are visible. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But come > on: show me a sex organ and I'll show you something sexual. Frank, did you take a wrong turn in 1873? Nudity is not always sexual. If nudity were always sexual, I assure you that my love life would be far less about theory and far more about practice. Sometimes nudity is just not bothering to put clothes on. Sometimes nudity is that it's too hot to wear clothes. Sometimes nudity is just simply a human form that doesn't happen to be wearing clothes. Do you also insist that a woman breastfeeding her baby is inherently sexual? I will also point out that nude art doesn't necessarily mean exposed genitalia. Or, perhaps you would like to deny a woman's right, or a man's, to be naked without it implying sexuality? A woman does not have the right to be photographed naked without surrendering herself you your patriarchal ideals of sexuality? > > That's not to say that nudity is necessary for sexualization; of course it's > not. Some of the sexiest images I've seen feature fully clothed models. You are also confusing sexy, with sexual. There are some very important differences between them. I'm sure that we can both agree that there are situations, or images that are completely non-sexual, but which can be very very sexy, at least to the right audience. In the same vein, I could propose a thought experiment by naming two people, where flagrantly sexual photos of them, in action, would not only be not sexy (to the vast majority of people), but might even be enough to put a lot of people off of their lunch. I understand, and applaud, your goal for equality on this subject. As someone who photographs nudes, not just of pretty young women, but of anyone who asks and generally without pay, no matter their sex, gender, age, size, it is a premise that I fully endorse. However, it is terribly oppresive, and one might even say patriarchal of you to force your ideals of sexuality on anyone who chooses, or even asks, to be photographed nude. One could even equate it with the concept of saying that a woman was asking to be raped because she was dressed provactively in public. > > Cheers, > frank > > Larry Colen <[email protected]> wrote: > >On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 09:14:57PM -0500, knarf wrote: > >> I only mention that because there seems to be a double standard here: > >it's okay to show female sexuality but not male. And I wonder why? > >> > >> I understand that an individual photographer will say, "But I don't > >want to photograph male nudes. As a straight male I just don't > >appreciate male nudity, erotic or otherwise. It's my right to choose to > >photograph only female nudes." > >> > >> Fair enough. > >> > > -- snip -- > > > >> > >> > >> However until there is some balance between portrayal of the genders > >I can't support female nudes. Because until that happens females will > >be sexualized and males won't be. And I just don't think that's right. > >> > > > >Fair enough. There have a few reasons that I don't post nudes of men. > > > >To a minor extent, it's because I don't think that the list here, by > >and > >far wants to see them. > > > >Another reason is that the account that I post my more adult themed > >work > >on is on a very NSFW website, but if anyone is specifically interested > >send me a note off list, and I'll send you the details. > > > >The biggest reason is that while I do get quite a few people asking me > >to photograph them nude, very few of them are men. But, since it seems > >so important to you, and in the interest of fairness... > > > >Here are some nude self portraits I took when I wanted to work with > >lighting and didn't have any other models: > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157630136872846/ > > > >When my schedule allows, one of the things I do is host photo > >practicas for the local fetish/kink community. Anybody who > >wants to can show up to take or pose for photos. I am pretty much > >end up photographing the people who want to be photographed, > >that nobody else is photographing. At this event, I was the > >only person taking photos, everybody else either wanted to > >pose for photos, or tie other people up for photos. > > > >I was involved in tying the scarves in the first of these shots, > >but I didn't do any of the actual ropework: > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157638030990316/ > > > >It should be obvious that while none of these photos sho any actual > >dangly bits, they are most likely not safe for work > > > >As to your contention that nudity equates with sexualization, > >I heartily disagree with you. Nudity is neither a necessary, nor > >a sufficient condition for sexualization. If you so desire, I > >could debate you on this topic until people start begging us > >to post cat photos just for respite. > > > >If you need more for the sake of equity, I can point you to a > >couple of sets where I did the lighting and posing, because a > >friend wanted to photograph some nudes, and I was what was > >available as a model. > > “Analysis kills spontaneity.” -- Henri-Frederic Amiel > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- Larry Colen [email protected] http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
