That is, after you spend the $200 for soundforge, and why I am stil 
wondering why does sound forge cost so much compaired to gold wave, unless 
it has 200 features that gold wave doesn't, I'm not spending that much. Not 
after I spend $50, at the most, for gold wave, and why I'm buying gold wave.
 Tyler
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Toews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:39 PM
Subject: RE: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions


>I believe in Gold Wave. It's gotten a lot of knocking over the years from
> people who sincerely believe that anything other than Sound Forge is a
> hopeless program to use.
>
> Bruce
>
> -- 
> Bruce Toews
> E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net
> Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com
>
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Curtis Delzer wrote:
>
>> What are you writing at first 22,050hz at 16Bit  or smaller? in
>> stereo, you could only go about 6 hours and 40 minutes at that rate
>> before you'd fill a fat 32 disk with 2 gigabytes. 24K mp3s don't
>> really sound that good, the smallest I do is 32K or 32K at the lowest
>> vbr rating of the encoder engine I use, can't spell frahnhoffer but I
>> tried, but, again, on the BP  24K mp3s I guess are ok. One mp3 at
>> that length would be a little unwieldy to me, but that is just
>> individual preference, and the bp does keep track of where you're
>> reading in any case. What is a *.pca file?
>> I am going to give GoldWave a look to see how they use noise
>> reduction or how their native noise reduction works, it's worth
>> the$50 because of the support to keyboards the program continues to
>> have as well.
>> Bruce, you're a good promulgator of the program, :) <grin>
>>
>> Curtis Delzer
>>
>> At 04:12 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote:
>>> No, I'm doing many of the same things you mentioned already.  I'm 
>>> getting
>>> rid of beginnings and endings of all sides, blowing off all references 
>>> to
>>> cassettes in general.
>>>
>>> When I'm done, I have a single MP3, 24 KBPS, that works nicely in the 
>>> Book
>>> Port.
>>>
>>> I dug out the deck, and the crosstalk is no more.
>>>
>>> Sixteen sides is the most I've ever digitized--made for a heck of a 
>>> file,
>>> but it worked.
>>>
>>> I guess I could do all that region creation stuff, which makes sense, 
>>> but I
>>> save each side as a .pca file, then I combine them and render them as a
>>> single MP3.  I don't even keep the stuff about "continuing on page
>>> such-and-such" at the beginning of every side.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:54 AM
>>> To: PC audio discussion list.
>>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>>
>>> I initially forgot a couple steps, very important. After you've
>>> recorded your "stereo" file with each track/side in the left and
>>> right channels, you need to select the entire file and copy it to the
>>> clip board and paste it into another window, one which is mono so the
>>> sound will be in the center. OOPS, sorry about that.
>>> You can do all the processing if you wish first before you do the
>>> pasting into your mono file, but it is important if you can, to put
>>> markers while the initial recording is being made when the cassette
>>> sides end so you can find them in an 8 side file, for example, which
>>> is just about the limit for fat32 (at 44,100Hz at 16bit stereo), if
>>> you use that format on your hard drive. So, let's say you've recorded
>>> your stereo file, 2 cassettes long which is about 3 hours, (probably
>>> 2:56 or so), select it all, then paste it into your mono file. First,
>>> the left channel, then the right channel. When you reverse the right
>>> channel, after you've done that, your 11 hour file will look like
>>> this; again after you've sampled down to 22,050Hz in mono, side 1, 2,
>>> 5, 6, 7, 8, 3, 4, (from least to most time, left to right. I label
>>> each region paying very close attention to the narrator so the
>>> numbers coincide, but I don't keep him saying "side 2, side 3, etc.
>>> and also I don't keep, "this book is up to 4 sides per cassette, or
>>> "so many pages on so many sides," in digital format, (again just my
>>> opinion, it is not needed, and, "to skip such and such in this book,
>>> fast forward until a beep is heard, stop at that point to hear x x x,
>>> or the beginning of the book."
>>> The markers, though you made them going forward, after you've
>>> reversed the right channel, the markers will be close to where the
>>> "reversed" sides begin' or' end, but you'll have to hunt a bit. Make
>>> new markers at the beginning and end of where you wish to create your
>>> regions, so in that way if the left or right end of the region area
>>> gets lost or unselected, you can readily find it again.
>>> I just recorded, finished, "Undue Influence," by Steven Martini
>>> tonight, while the Rose Bowl was going on, GO TEXAS! :) They did win,
>>> during side 10 about 30 minutes before I finished the initial
>>> recording before processing.
>>>
>>> At 04:47 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>>> Thank you for such kind words, and I will do what I can to reveal
>>>> what I do to get rid of noise in sound forge.
>>>> Here is a message I sent to Nolan about it, but I'll amplify.
>>>> Well, this is "off list," so no prob, and as far as replying, hey,
>>>> what are we here
>>>> fore, to help one another? Damn right! So, I enjoy it since I've done
>>>> many hundred
>>>> books and know how valuable it is when you hear something which,
>>>> going in sounded
>>>> like that unmentionable schtuff you mentioned, but coming out sounds
>>>> fantastic! I,
>>>> presume, you do have the sound forge noise reduction plug in, so if
>>>> you do, then
>>>> you're going to find that it will do a magnificent job, especially if
>>>> you can get
>>>> it to sample the sound in such a way that it automatically picks the
>>>> "hiss," and/or
>>>> the "noise" it is suppose to hear, and not what you don't want it to
>>>> reduce like
>>>> the voice. Since you've recorded in SF before and know how to
>>>> reverse, what I do
>>>> is make a region for each side of each cassette, and then have sf
>>>> write those regions
>>>> to specific *.wav files, and then use something else to make the mp3s
>>>> at 32K or 32K
>>>> with vbr so the sound is as good as it should be. I record at
>>>> 44,100Hz and then change
>>>> the sample rate to 22,050, (NOT RESAMPLE) just change the sample rate
>>>> so the pitch
>>>> halves, to resample would not change the pitch but you'd loose
>>>> quality, and then
>>>> apply noise reduction since the noise you wish for the NR to hear
>>>> would be at the
>>>> correct pitch as well.
>>>> I hope some of this rambling helps. You can change the amount of
>>>> noise reduction
>>>> in the nr reduction plug-in, rather than use the preset of "0.250
>>>> seconds (a quarter
>>>> second) (for fast computers) and then, since it's mode 1, you can
>>>> then change the
>>>> amount of supression in db. The "sample noise" checkbox should be
>>>> checked, and when
>>>> you first have it sample a noise, it auto unchecks itself since the
>>>> nr plug-in has
>>>> found the sample and made it's configuration and to that noise it's
>>>> sampled, it's
>>>> set. Change the db slider to, let's say, minus 40 DB and while
>>>> listening to the "preview"
>>>> you'll be amazed how wonderfully it will work. Then, save the
>>>> setting, but make sure,
>>>> before you save that setting, that the sample checkbox is then,
>>>> checked, since if
>>>> you use that setting in the future for another minus 40 db sample,
>>>> you wish it to
>>>> sample at least a quarter second of noise automatically, and by
>>>> default. Many guys
>>>> forget that checkbox and figure that since the slider is set for
>>>> minus 40 db, it
>>>> will get rid of the noise, forgetting that it needs to sample first
>>>> some noise before
>>>> it can apply it's magic to what you wish it to hear, not a voice or
>>>> music. Plan to
>>>> use a selected part of the noise when you make the nr plug-in hear
>>>> noise, (the beginning
>>>> of each side of a book is plenty of room for it) and you'll be really
>>>> pleased, I
>>>> guarantee.
>>>> That dec, will make a huge difference though the handi-cassette is
>>>> good one track
>>>> at a time, even has better or less cross talk one track at a time,
>>>> but is tedious
>>>> that way. Recording off that dec in your garage (when you set it up)
>>>> the right channel
>>>> is tracks 4 and 3 sides 1 and 2 of the tape, and you know that if you
>>>> first record
>>>> 1 cassette, that if you press tab it will put the left channel by
>>>> itself into a way
>>>> which you can work with separately. Press tab until you hear only the
>>>> right channel,
>>>> then reverse it all at once. Then you should down sample, normalize,
>>>> noise reduce,
>>>> make regions for sides (which for best results should be noise
>>>> reduced separately)
>>>> and then have sf make your *.wav files.
>>>> Getting to those sliders for minus db can be problematic, though,
>>>> fortunately I have jfw 5.0 and it's native sound forge configuration
>>>> files, so the sliders can be found. You must play around a good bit
>>>> in the plug-in configuration, trying up and down arrow to find out
>>>> which field(s) get changed, but when you do and learn which does
>>>> change that slider from about minus 12.5 db which is a default
>>>> setting when using the preset for "fast computers with 250
>>>> millisecond capture, you then will be amazed how well it works,
>>>> again, especially, if it just hears noise such as tape hiss or hum
>>>> before the recording begins.
>>>> I hope all this helps. Take care and write to let me know how you're 
>>>> doing.
>>>> Curtis Delzer
>>>>
>>>> At 02:06 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the outstanding advice regarding the plug-in and the
>>>> handi-cassette.  I knew it was a piece of something unmentionable when 
>>>> it
>>>> came to reproducing stereo sound; I need to hunt up my old cassette 
>>>> deck
>>>> stored in a box in the garage, and I'll do that this weekend.
>>>> I wonder if we could communicate via e-mail off list so I can get a
>>> somewhat
>>>> better handle on how to even begin to use that plug-in.  I can't even 
>>>> get
>>>> the auto trim crop to trim the silence off both ends of the recording
>>>> appropriately--obviously operator incompetence alive, well, and at work 
>>>> in
>>>> front of my keyboard.  <smile>
>>>> Again, Curtis, thanks for replying.  I know it took time out of your 
>>>> life,
>>>> and silly and goofy as it sounds, any time I get a reply from anyone, 
>>>> it's
>>>> kind of a significant thing, especially when I stop and recognize how 
>>>> busy
>>> I
>>>> get and how easy it is to just say "poor slob; hope someone somewhere 
>>>> can
>>>> figure that out for him," and hit the delete key.  So when I say thanks 
>>>> for
>>>> writing back, I truly am grateful.
>>>> Where do I even go to activate the plug-in?  I assume I have to select 
>>>> some
>>>> tape hiss; that's easy enough to do.
>>>> And do you do that before or after you resample?
>>>> Nolan Crabb
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [
>>>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> ]
>>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:18 AM
>>>> To: PC audio discussion list.
>>>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>>> Sorry, but the  HANDI-CASSETTE has a lot of cross talk by default,
>>>> and nothing in sound forge can correct this. A better way is to use a
>>>> regular stereo cassette dec and record tracks 1 and 4, then turn the
>>>> cassette over and then record sides 2 and 3. This will make a file
>>>> about an hour and a half long, (probably closer to about 84 or 85
>>>> minutes give or take). In SF you can press tab and get to either the
>>>> left or right side, and you wish to reverse the right channel as you
>>>> know. If you have the SF noise reduction plut-in, it is superlative
>>>> at getting rid of the hiss. The commercial cassette stereo recorder
>>>> has a much better cross talk capability, even a non expensive one.
>>>> Somehow, the HANDI-CASSETTE, in stereo, is pretty lousy in this
>>>> regard. If you use the sound forge noise reduction plut-in, use a
>>>> facility in it which lets you sample the hiss in such a way that it
>>>> is beyond the beginning of the tape and just before the narrator
>>>> begins, and save the setting. You can tweak the settings to get that
>>>> hiss up to 99 db below what it is, and if you do it right, the hiss
>>>> will be virtually gone leaving the recording even better than the
>>>> original, I know, I've done it several hundred times.
>>>> Good luck!
>>>> Curtis Delzer
>>>> At 05:18 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote:
>>>> >Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this.
>>>> >
>>>> >I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in my
>>> Book
>>>> >Port.  So here's the question:
>>>> >
>>>> >I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of 
>>>> >the
>>>> >crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo.  (I record using a
>>>> >handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then
>>> reverse
>>>> >tracks 3 and 4.  I then resample the recordings so the speed is 
>>>> >normal,
>>>> >combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later suck
>>> into
>>>> >the Book Port.
>>>> >
>>>> >How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the 
>>>> >hiss
>>> if
>>>> >not the crosstalk?
>>>> >
>>>> >Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my source.
>>>> Trust
>>>> >me, I get that already!
>>>> >
>>>> >Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>> >
>>>> >Nolan Crabb
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> At 02:26 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>>>> Nolan, I have had good results in removing crosstalk by using the
>>>>> Noise Gate function in the SF8 menu.  That's Noise Gate rather than
>>>>> Noise Reduction.  You need to tinker with the decibel setting -
>>>>> somewhere between -30 and -35 worked best for me without cutting off
>>>>> the speech at the end of phrases, and you still get crosstalk
>>>>> sometimes during the speech, but it made a big difference in the final
>>>>> product.
>>>>>
>>>>> I endorse Curtis's suggestion (posted later) of using a commercial
>>>>> stereo cassette deck, and resampling and reversing tracks to get the
>>>>> final result.  It's a little more technically intensive, but the
>>>>> results are worth it.  I would love to know Curtis's secret for
>>>>> removing as much hiss as he does with Noise Reduction.  I could never
>>>>> achieve those results, which I am sure is more a comment on the
>>>>> operator than on the product.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nolan Crabb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> To: "'PC audio discussion list. '" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in my
>>>>> Book
>>>>> Port.  So here's the question:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of
>>>>> the
>>>>> crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo.  (I record using a
>>>>> handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then
>>>>> reverse
>>>>> tracks 3 and 4.  I then resample the recordings so the speed is
>>>>> normal,
>>>>> combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later suck
>>>>> into
>>>>> the Book Port.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the
>>>>> hiss if
>>>>> not the crosstalk?
>>>>>
>>>>> Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my source.
>>>>> Trust
>>>>> me, I get that already!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nolan Crabb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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