Well then, I'll stick with gold wave, as it suits my needs and, like I said in a previous post, I don't have $500 to spend on something that I'll never even touch the features in. If you know gold waves interface well and can use it, why spend $500, especially if it can suit your needs. I'll admit, however, that I've not yet used sound forge--although whatever it offers, I don't exactly think its worth $500, compaired to $40, and you pretty much get just as much as you would with sound forge as far as I'm concerned.
Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Toews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:03 PM Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions >A few years ago, Gold Wave was very much a toy as far as sound editors > went. That has changed as new versions have come out. The price has not > changed. One thing is that Gold Wave is pretty much a one-man operation, > where as Sound forge is brought to you by teh same people who > mass-marketed blank CD's and then charge you for using them. > > Bruce > > -- > Bruce Toews > E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net > Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com > > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Tyler Wood wrote: > >> That is, after you spend the $200 for soundforge, and why I am stil >> wondering why does sound forge cost so much compaired to gold wave, >> unless >> it has 200 features that gold wave doesn't, I'm not spending that much. >> Not >> after I spend $50, at the most, for gold wave, and why I'm buying gold >> wave. >> Tyler >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bruce Toews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:39 PM >> Subject: RE: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions >> >> >>> I believe in Gold Wave. It's gotten a lot of knocking over the years >>> from >>> people who sincerely believe that anything other than Sound Forge is a >>> hopeless program to use. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> -- >>> Bruce Toews >>> E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net >>> Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com >>> >>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Curtis Delzer wrote: >>> >>>> What are you writing at first 22,050hz at 16Bit or smaller? in >>>> stereo, you could only go about 6 hours and 40 minutes at that rate >>>> before you'd fill a fat 32 disk with 2 gigabytes. 24K mp3s don't >>>> really sound that good, the smallest I do is 32K or 32K at the lowest >>>> vbr rating of the encoder engine I use, can't spell frahnhoffer but I >>>> tried, but, again, on the BP 24K mp3s I guess are ok. One mp3 at >>>> that length would be a little unwieldy to me, but that is just >>>> individual preference, and the bp does keep track of where you're >>>> reading in any case. What is a *.pca file? >>>> I am going to give GoldWave a look to see how they use noise >>>> reduction or how their native noise reduction works, it's worth >>>> the$50 because of the support to keyboards the program continues to >>>> have as well. >>>> Bruce, you're a good promulgator of the program, :) <grin> >>>> >>>> Curtis Delzer >>>> >>>> At 04:12 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote: >>>>> No, I'm doing many of the same things you mentioned already. I'm >>>>> getting >>>>> rid of beginnings and endings of all sides, blowing off all references >>>>> to >>>>> cassettes in general. >>>>> >>>>> When I'm done, I have a single MP3, 24 KBPS, that works nicely in the >>>>> Book >>>>> Port. >>>>> >>>>> I dug out the deck, and the crosstalk is no more. >>>>> >>>>> Sixteen sides is the most I've ever digitized--made for a heck of a >>>>> file, >>>>> but it worked. >>>>> >>>>> I guess I could do all that region creation stuff, which makes sense, >>>>> but I >>>>> save each side as a .pca file, then I combine them and render them as >>>>> a >>>>> single MP3. I don't even keep the stuff about "continuing on page >>>>> such-and-such" at the beginning of every side. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:54 AM >>>>> To: PC audio discussion list. >>>>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions >>>>> >>>>> I initially forgot a couple steps, very important. After you've >>>>> recorded your "stereo" file with each track/side in the left and >>>>> right channels, you need to select the entire file and copy it to the >>>>> clip board and paste it into another window, one which is mono so the >>>>> sound will be in the center. OOPS, sorry about that. >>>>> You can do all the processing if you wish first before you do the >>>>> pasting into your mono file, but it is important if you can, to put >>>>> markers while the initial recording is being made when the cassette >>>>> sides end so you can find them in an 8 side file, for example, which >>>>> is just about the limit for fat32 (at 44,100Hz at 16bit stereo), if >>>>> you use that format on your hard drive. So, let's say you've recorded >>>>> your stereo file, 2 cassettes long which is about 3 hours, (probably >>>>> 2:56 or so), select it all, then paste it into your mono file. First, >>>>> the left channel, then the right channel. When you reverse the right >>>>> channel, after you've done that, your 11 hour file will look like >>>>> this; again after you've sampled down to 22,050Hz in mono, side 1, 2, >>>>> 5, 6, 7, 8, 3, 4, (from least to most time, left to right. I label >>>>> each region paying very close attention to the narrator so the >>>>> numbers coincide, but I don't keep him saying "side 2, side 3, etc. >>>>> and also I don't keep, "this book is up to 4 sides per cassette, or >>>>> "so many pages on so many sides," in digital format, (again just my >>>>> opinion, it is not needed, and, "to skip such and such in this book, >>>>> fast forward until a beep is heard, stop at that point to hear x x x, >>>>> or the beginning of the book." >>>>> The markers, though you made them going forward, after you've >>>>> reversed the right channel, the markers will be close to where the >>>>> "reversed" sides begin' or' end, but you'll have to hunt a bit. Make >>>>> new markers at the beginning and end of where you wish to create your >>>>> regions, so in that way if the left or right end of the region area >>>>> gets lost or unselected, you can readily find it again. >>>>> I just recorded, finished, "Undue Influence," by Steven Martini >>>>> tonight, while the Rose Bowl was going on, GO TEXAS! :) They did win, >>>>> during side 10 about 30 minutes before I finished the initial >>>>> recording before processing. >>>>> >>>>> At 04:47 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote: >>>>>> Thank you for such kind words, and I will do what I can to reveal >>>>>> what I do to get rid of noise in sound forge. >>>>>> Here is a message I sent to Nolan about it, but I'll amplify. >>>>>> Well, this is "off list," so no prob, and as far as replying, hey, >>>>>> what are we here >>>>>> fore, to help one another? Damn right! So, I enjoy it since I've done >>>>>> many hundred >>>>>> books and know how valuable it is when you hear something which, >>>>>> going in sounded >>>>>> like that unmentionable schtuff you mentioned, but coming out sounds >>>>>> fantastic! I, >>>>>> presume, you do have the sound forge noise reduction plug in, so if >>>>>> you do, then >>>>>> you're going to find that it will do a magnificent job, especially if >>>>>> you can get >>>>>> it to sample the sound in such a way that it automatically picks the >>>>>> "hiss," and/or >>>>>> the "noise" it is suppose to hear, and not what you don't want it to >>>>>> reduce like >>>>>> the voice. Since you've recorded in SF before and know how to >>>>>> reverse, what I do >>>>>> is make a region for each side of each cassette, and then have sf >>>>>> write those regions >>>>>> to specific *.wav files, and then use something else to make the mp3s >>>>>> at 32K or 32K >>>>>> with vbr so the sound is as good as it should be. I record at >>>>>> 44,100Hz and then change >>>>>> the sample rate to 22,050, (NOT RESAMPLE) just change the sample rate >>>>>> so the pitch >>>>>> halves, to resample would not change the pitch but you'd loose >>>>>> quality, and then >>>>>> apply noise reduction since the noise you wish for the NR to hear >>>>>> would be at the >>>>>> correct pitch as well. >>>>>> I hope some of this rambling helps. You can change the amount of >>>>>> noise reduction >>>>>> in the nr reduction plug-in, rather than use the preset of "0.250 >>>>>> seconds (a quarter >>>>>> second) (for fast computers) and then, since it's mode 1, you can >>>>>> then change the >>>>>> amount of supression in db. The "sample noise" checkbox should be >>>>>> checked, and when >>>>>> you first have it sample a noise, it auto unchecks itself since the >>>>>> nr plug-in has >>>>>> found the sample and made it's configuration and to that noise it's >>>>>> sampled, it's >>>>>> set. Change the db slider to, let's say, minus 40 DB and while >>>>>> listening to the "preview" >>>>>> you'll be amazed how wonderfully it will work. Then, save the >>>>>> setting, but make sure, >>>>>> before you save that setting, that the sample checkbox is then, >>>>>> checked, since if >>>>>> you use that setting in the future for another minus 40 db sample, >>>>>> you wish it to >>>>>> sample at least a quarter second of noise automatically, and by >>>>>> default. Many guys >>>>>> forget that checkbox and figure that since the slider is set for >>>>>> minus 40 db, it >>>>>> will get rid of the noise, forgetting that it needs to sample first >>>>>> some noise before >>>>>> it can apply it's magic to what you wish it to hear, not a voice or >>>>>> music. Plan to >>>>>> use a selected part of the noise when you make the nr plug-in hear >>>>>> noise, (the beginning >>>>>> of each side of a book is plenty of room for it) and you'll be really >>>>>> pleased, I >>>>>> guarantee. >>>>>> That dec, will make a huge difference though the handi-cassette is >>>>>> good one track >>>>>> at a time, even has better or less cross talk one track at a time, >>>>>> but is tedious >>>>>> that way. Recording off that dec in your garage (when you set it up) >>>>>> the right channel >>>>>> is tracks 4 and 3 sides 1 and 2 of the tape, and you know that if you >>>>>> first record >>>>>> 1 cassette, that if you press tab it will put the left channel by >>>>>> itself into a way >>>>>> which you can work with separately. Press tab until you hear only the >>>>>> right channel, >>>>>> then reverse it all at once. Then you should down sample, normalize, >>>>>> noise reduce, >>>>>> make regions for sides (which for best results should be noise >>>>>> reduced separately) >>>>>> and then have sf make your *.wav files. >>>>>> Getting to those sliders for minus db can be problematic, though, >>>>>> fortunately I have jfw 5.0 and it's native sound forge configuration >>>>>> files, so the sliders can be found. You must play around a good bit >>>>>> in the plug-in configuration, trying up and down arrow to find out >>>>>> which field(s) get changed, but when you do and learn which does >>>>>> change that slider from about minus 12.5 db which is a default >>>>>> setting when using the preset for "fast computers with 250 >>>>>> millisecond capture, you then will be amazed how well it works, >>>>>> again, especially, if it just hears noise such as tape hiss or hum >>>>>> before the recording begins. >>>>>> I hope all this helps. Take care and write to let me know how you're >>>>>> doing. >>>>>> Curtis Delzer >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:06 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote: >>>>>> Thanks for the outstanding advice regarding the plug-in and the >>>>>> handi-cassette. I knew it was a piece of something unmentionable >>>>>> when >>>>>> it >>>>>> came to reproducing stereo sound; I need to hunt up my old cassette >>>>>> deck >>>>>> stored in a box in the garage, and I'll do that this weekend. >>>>>> I wonder if we could communicate via e-mail off list so I can get a >>>>> somewhat >>>>>> better handle on how to even begin to use that plug-in. I can't even >>>>>> get >>>>>> the auto trim crop to trim the silence off both ends of the recording >>>>>> appropriately--obviously operator incompetence alive, well, and at >>>>>> work >>>>>> in >>>>>> front of my keyboard. <smile> >>>>>> Again, Curtis, thanks for replying. I know it took time out of your >>>>>> life, >>>>>> and silly and goofy as it sounds, any time I get a reply from anyone, >>>>>> it's >>>>>> kind of a significant thing, especially when I stop and recognize how >>>>>> busy >>>>> I >>>>>> get and how easy it is to just say "poor slob; hope someone somewhere >>>>>> can >>>>>> figure that out for him," and hit the delete key. So when I say >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> for >>>>>> writing back, I truly am grateful. >>>>>> Where do I even go to activate the plug-in? I assume I have to >>>>>> select >>>>>> some >>>>>> tape hiss; that's easy enough to do. >>>>>> And do you do that before or after you resample? >>>>>> Nolan Crabb >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] or >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ >>>>>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> ] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:18 AM >>>>>> To: PC audio discussion list. >>>>>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions >>>>>> Sorry, but the HANDI-CASSETTE has a lot of cross talk by default, >>>>>> and nothing in sound forge can correct this. A better way is to use a >>>>>> regular stereo cassette dec and record tracks 1 and 4, then turn the >>>>>> cassette over and then record sides 2 and 3. This will make a file >>>>>> about an hour and a half long, (probably closer to about 84 or 85 >>>>>> minutes give or take). In SF you can press tab and get to either the >>>>>> left or right side, and you wish to reverse the right channel as you >>>>>> know. If you have the SF noise reduction plut-in, it is superlative >>>>>> at getting rid of the hiss. The commercial cassette stereo recorder >>>>>> has a much better cross talk capability, even a non expensive one. >>>>>> Somehow, the HANDI-CASSETTE, in stereo, is pretty lousy in this >>>>>> regard. If you use the sound forge noise reduction plut-in, use a >>>>>> facility in it which lets you sample the hiss in such a way that it >>>>>> is beyond the beginning of the tape and just before the narrator >>>>>> begins, and save the setting. You can tweak the settings to get that >>>>>> hiss up to 99 db below what it is, and if you do it right, the hiss >>>>>> will be virtually gone leaving the recording even better than the >>>>>> original, I know, I've done it several hundred times. >>>>>> Good luck! >>>>>> Curtis Delzer >>>>>> At 05:18 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote: >>>>>>> Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in >>>>>>> my >>>>> Book >>>>>>> Port. So here's the question: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo. (I record using >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then >>>>> reverse >>>>>>> tracks 3 and 4. I then resample the recordings so the speed is >>>>>>> normal, >>>>>>> combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later >>>>>>> suck >>>>> into >>>>>>> the Book Port. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the >>>>>>> hiss >>>>> if >>>>>>> not the crosstalk? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my >>>>>>> source. >>>>>> Trust >>>>>>> me, I get that already! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nolan Crabb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other >>>>>>> lists we offer, visit us on the web at >>>>>> http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists >>>>>> we >>>>>> offer, visit us on the web at >>>>>> http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:26 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote: >>>>>>> Nolan, I have had good results in removing crosstalk by using the >>>>>>> Noise Gate function in the SF8 menu. That's Noise Gate rather than >>>>>>> Noise Reduction. You need to tinker with the decibel setting - >>>>>>> somewhere between -30 and -35 worked best for me without cutting off >>>>>>> the speech at the end of phrases, and you still get crosstalk >>>>>>> sometimes during the speech, but it made a big difference in the >>>>>>> final >>>>>>> product. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I endorse Curtis's suggestion (posted later) of using a commercial >>>>>>> stereo cassette deck, and resampling and reversing tracks to get the >>>>>>> final result. It's a little more technically intensive, but the >>>>>>> results are worth it. I would love to know Curtis's secret for >>>>>>> removing as much hiss as he does with Noise Reduction. I could >>>>>>> never >>>>>>> achieve those results, which I am sure is more a comment on the >>>>>>> operator than on the product. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Nolan Crabb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> To: "'PC audio discussion list. '" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:18 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> Book >>>>>>> Port. So here's the question: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo. (I record using >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then >>>>>>> reverse >>>>>>> tracks 3 and 4. I then resample the recordings so the speed is >>>>>>> normal, >>>>>>> combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later >>>>>>> suck >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> the Book Port. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the >>>>>>> hiss if >>>>>>> not the crosstalk? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my >>>>>>> source. >>>>>>> Trust >>>>>>> me, I get that already! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nolan Crabb >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other >>>>>>> lists >>>>>>> we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other >>>>>>> lists we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> >>>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other >>>>>> lists we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists >>>>> we >>>>> offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other >>>>> lists we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> >>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists >>>> we >>>> offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >>> http://www.pc-audio.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists we >>> offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.13/221 - Release Date: >>> 04/01/2006 >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >> http://www.pc-audio.org >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists we >> offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > http://www.pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. 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