Well then, I'll stick with gold wave, as it suits my needs and, like I said 
in a previous post, I don't have $500 to spend on something that I'll never 
even touch the features in. If you know gold waves interface well and can 
use it, why spend $500, especially if it can suit your needs. I'll admit, 
however, that I've not yet used sound forge--although whatever it offers, I 
don't exactly think its worth $500, compaired to $40, and you pretty much 
get just as much as you would with sound forge as far as I'm concerned.

Tyler
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Toews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions


>A few years ago, Gold Wave was very much a toy as far as sound editors
> went. That has changed as new versions have come out. The price has not
> changed. One thing is that Gold Wave is pretty much a one-man operation,
> where as Sound forge is brought to you by teh same people who
> mass-marketed blank CD's and then charge you for using them.
>
> Bruce
>
> -- 
> Bruce Toews
> E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net
> Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com
>
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Tyler Wood wrote:
>
>> That is, after you spend the $200 for soundforge, and why I am stil
>> wondering why does sound forge cost so much compaired to gold wave, 
>> unless
>> it has 200 features that gold wave doesn't, I'm not spending that much. 
>> Not
>> after I spend $50, at the most, for gold wave, and why I'm buying gold 
>> wave.
>> Tyler
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bruce Toews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:39 PM
>> Subject: RE: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>
>>
>>> I believe in Gold Wave. It's gotten a lot of knocking over the years 
>>> from
>>> people who sincerely believe that anything other than Sound Forge is a
>>> hopeless program to use.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bruce Toews
>>> E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net
>>> Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com
>>>
>>> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Curtis Delzer wrote:
>>>
>>>> What are you writing at first 22,050hz at 16Bit  or smaller? in
>>>> stereo, you could only go about 6 hours and 40 minutes at that rate
>>>> before you'd fill a fat 32 disk with 2 gigabytes. 24K mp3s don't
>>>> really sound that good, the smallest I do is 32K or 32K at the lowest
>>>> vbr rating of the encoder engine I use, can't spell frahnhoffer but I
>>>> tried, but, again, on the BP  24K mp3s I guess are ok. One mp3 at
>>>> that length would be a little unwieldy to me, but that is just
>>>> individual preference, and the bp does keep track of where you're
>>>> reading in any case. What is a *.pca file?
>>>> I am going to give GoldWave a look to see how they use noise
>>>> reduction or how their native noise reduction works, it's worth
>>>> the$50 because of the support to keyboards the program continues to
>>>> have as well.
>>>> Bruce, you're a good promulgator of the program, :) <grin>
>>>>
>>>> Curtis Delzer
>>>>
>>>> At 04:12 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote:
>>>>> No, I'm doing many of the same things you mentioned already.  I'm
>>>>> getting
>>>>> rid of beginnings and endings of all sides, blowing off all references
>>>>> to
>>>>> cassettes in general.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I'm done, I have a single MP3, 24 KBPS, that works nicely in the
>>>>> Book
>>>>> Port.
>>>>>
>>>>> I dug out the deck, and the crosstalk is no more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sixteen sides is the most I've ever digitized--made for a heck of a
>>>>> file,
>>>>> but it worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I could do all that region creation stuff, which makes sense,
>>>>> but I
>>>>> save each side as a .pca file, then I combine them and render them as 
>>>>> a
>>>>> single MP3.  I don't even keep the stuff about "continuing on page
>>>>> such-and-such" at the beginning of every side.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:54 AM
>>>>> To: PC audio discussion list.
>>>>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>>>>
>>>>> I initially forgot a couple steps, very important. After you've
>>>>> recorded your "stereo" file with each track/side in the left and
>>>>> right channels, you need to select the entire file and copy it to the
>>>>> clip board and paste it into another window, one which is mono so the
>>>>> sound will be in the center. OOPS, sorry about that.
>>>>> You can do all the processing if you wish first before you do the
>>>>> pasting into your mono file, but it is important if you can, to put
>>>>> markers while the initial recording is being made when the cassette
>>>>> sides end so you can find them in an 8 side file, for example, which
>>>>> is just about the limit for fat32 (at 44,100Hz at 16bit stereo), if
>>>>> you use that format on your hard drive. So, let's say you've recorded
>>>>> your stereo file, 2 cassettes long which is about 3 hours, (probably
>>>>> 2:56 or so), select it all, then paste it into your mono file. First,
>>>>> the left channel, then the right channel. When you reverse the right
>>>>> channel, after you've done that, your 11 hour file will look like
>>>>> this; again after you've sampled down to 22,050Hz in mono, side 1, 2,
>>>>> 5, 6, 7, 8, 3, 4, (from least to most time, left to right. I label
>>>>> each region paying very close attention to the narrator so the
>>>>> numbers coincide, but I don't keep him saying "side 2, side 3, etc.
>>>>> and also I don't keep, "this book is up to 4 sides per cassette, or
>>>>> "so many pages on so many sides," in digital format, (again just my
>>>>> opinion, it is not needed, and, "to skip such and such in this book,
>>>>> fast forward until a beep is heard, stop at that point to hear x x x,
>>>>> or the beginning of the book."
>>>>> The markers, though you made them going forward, after you've
>>>>> reversed the right channel, the markers will be close to where the
>>>>> "reversed" sides begin' or' end, but you'll have to hunt a bit. Make
>>>>> new markers at the beginning and end of where you wish to create your
>>>>> regions, so in that way if the left or right end of the region area
>>>>> gets lost or unselected, you can readily find it again.
>>>>> I just recorded, finished, "Undue Influence," by Steven Martini
>>>>> tonight, while the Rose Bowl was going on, GO TEXAS! :) They did win,
>>>>> during side 10 about 30 minutes before I finished the initial
>>>>> recording before processing.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 04:47 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>> Thank you for such kind words, and I will do what I can to reveal
>>>>>> what I do to get rid of noise in sound forge.
>>>>>> Here is a message I sent to Nolan about it, but I'll amplify.
>>>>>> Well, this is "off list," so no prob, and as far as replying, hey,
>>>>>> what are we here
>>>>>> fore, to help one another? Damn right! So, I enjoy it since I've done
>>>>>> many hundred
>>>>>> books and know how valuable it is when you hear something which,
>>>>>> going in sounded
>>>>>> like that unmentionable schtuff you mentioned, but coming out sounds
>>>>>> fantastic! I,
>>>>>> presume, you do have the sound forge noise reduction plug in, so if
>>>>>> you do, then
>>>>>> you're going to find that it will do a magnificent job, especially if
>>>>>> you can get
>>>>>> it to sample the sound in such a way that it automatically picks the
>>>>>> "hiss," and/or
>>>>>> the "noise" it is suppose to hear, and not what you don't want it to
>>>>>> reduce like
>>>>>> the voice. Since you've recorded in SF before and know how to
>>>>>> reverse, what I do
>>>>>> is make a region for each side of each cassette, and then have sf
>>>>>> write those regions
>>>>>> to specific *.wav files, and then use something else to make the mp3s
>>>>>> at 32K or 32K
>>>>>> with vbr so the sound is as good as it should be. I record at
>>>>>> 44,100Hz and then change
>>>>>> the sample rate to 22,050, (NOT RESAMPLE) just change the sample rate
>>>>>> so the pitch
>>>>>> halves, to resample would not change the pitch but you'd loose
>>>>>> quality, and then
>>>>>> apply noise reduction since the noise you wish for the NR to hear
>>>>>> would be at the
>>>>>> correct pitch as well.
>>>>>> I hope some of this rambling helps. You can change the amount of
>>>>>> noise reduction
>>>>>> in the nr reduction plug-in, rather than use the preset of "0.250
>>>>>> seconds (a quarter
>>>>>> second) (for fast computers) and then, since it's mode 1, you can
>>>>>> then change the
>>>>>> amount of supression in db. The "sample noise" checkbox should be
>>>>>> checked, and when
>>>>>> you first have it sample a noise, it auto unchecks itself since the
>>>>>> nr plug-in has
>>>>>> found the sample and made it's configuration and to that noise it's
>>>>>> sampled, it's
>>>>>> set. Change the db slider to, let's say, minus 40 DB and while
>>>>>> listening to the "preview"
>>>>>> you'll be amazed how wonderfully it will work. Then, save the
>>>>>> setting, but make sure,
>>>>>> before you save that setting, that the sample checkbox is then,
>>>>>> checked, since if
>>>>>> you use that setting in the future for another minus 40 db sample,
>>>>>> you wish it to
>>>>>> sample at least a quarter second of noise automatically, and by
>>>>>> default. Many guys
>>>>>> forget that checkbox and figure that since the slider is set for
>>>>>> minus 40 db, it
>>>>>> will get rid of the noise, forgetting that it needs to sample first
>>>>>> some noise before
>>>>>> it can apply it's magic to what you wish it to hear, not a voice or
>>>>>> music. Plan to
>>>>>> use a selected part of the noise when you make the nr plug-in hear
>>>>>> noise, (the beginning
>>>>>> of each side of a book is plenty of room for it) and you'll be really
>>>>>> pleased, I
>>>>>> guarantee.
>>>>>> That dec, will make a huge difference though the handi-cassette is
>>>>>> good one track
>>>>>> at a time, even has better or less cross talk one track at a time,
>>>>>> but is tedious
>>>>>> that way. Recording off that dec in your garage (when you set it up)
>>>>>> the right channel
>>>>>> is tracks 4 and 3 sides 1 and 2 of the tape, and you know that if you
>>>>>> first record
>>>>>> 1 cassette, that if you press tab it will put the left channel by
>>>>>> itself into a way
>>>>>> which you can work with separately. Press tab until you hear only the
>>>>>> right channel,
>>>>>> then reverse it all at once. Then you should down sample, normalize,
>>>>>> noise reduce,
>>>>>> make regions for sides (which for best results should be noise
>>>>>> reduced separately)
>>>>>> and then have sf make your *.wav files.
>>>>>> Getting to those sliders for minus db can be problematic, though,
>>>>>> fortunately I have jfw 5.0 and it's native sound forge configuration
>>>>>> files, so the sliders can be found. You must play around a good bit
>>>>>> in the plug-in configuration, trying up and down arrow to find out
>>>>>> which field(s) get changed, but when you do and learn which does
>>>>>> change that slider from about minus 12.5 db which is a default
>>>>>> setting when using the preset for "fast computers with 250
>>>>>> millisecond capture, you then will be amazed how well it works,
>>>>>> again, especially, if it just hears noise such as tape hiss or hum
>>>>>> before the recording begins.
>>>>>> I hope all this helps. Take care and write to let me know how you're
>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>> Curtis Delzer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 02:06 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks for the outstanding advice regarding the plug-in and the
>>>>>> handi-cassette.  I knew it was a piece of something unmentionable 
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> came to reproducing stereo sound; I need to hunt up my old cassette
>>>>>> deck
>>>>>> stored in a box in the garage, and I'll do that this weekend.
>>>>>> I wonder if we could communicate via e-mail off list so I can get a
>>>>> somewhat
>>>>>> better handle on how to even begin to use that plug-in.  I can't even
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> the auto trim crop to trim the silence off both ends of the recording
>>>>>> appropriately--obviously operator incompetence alive, well, and at 
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> front of my keyboard.  <smile>
>>>>>> Again, Curtis, thanks for replying.  I know it took time out of your
>>>>>> life,
>>>>>> and silly and goofy as it sounds, any time I get a reply from anyone,
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> kind of a significant thing, especially when I stop and recognize how
>>>>>> busy
>>>>> I
>>>>>> get and how easy it is to just say "poor slob; hope someone somewhere
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> figure that out for him," and hit the delete key.  So when I say 
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> writing back, I truly am grateful.
>>>>>> Where do I even go to activate the plug-in?  I assume I have to 
>>>>>> select
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> tape hiss; that's easy enough to do.
>>>>>> And do you do that before or after you resample?
>>>>>> Nolan Crabb
>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [
>>>>>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:18 AM
>>>>>> To: PC audio discussion list.
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>>>>> Sorry, but the  HANDI-CASSETTE has a lot of cross talk by default,
>>>>>> and nothing in sound forge can correct this. A better way is to use a
>>>>>> regular stereo cassette dec and record tracks 1 and 4, then turn the
>>>>>> cassette over and then record sides 2 and 3. This will make a file
>>>>>> about an hour and a half long, (probably closer to about 84 or 85
>>>>>> minutes give or take). In SF you can press tab and get to either the
>>>>>> left or right side, and you wish to reverse the right channel as you
>>>>>> know. If you have the SF noise reduction plut-in, it is superlative
>>>>>> at getting rid of the hiss. The commercial cassette stereo recorder
>>>>>> has a much better cross talk capability, even a non expensive one.
>>>>>> Somehow, the HANDI-CASSETTE, in stereo, is pretty lousy in this
>>>>>> regard. If you use the sound forge noise reduction plut-in, use a
>>>>>> facility in it which lets you sample the hiss in such a way that it
>>>>>> is beyond the beginning of the tape and just before the narrator
>>>>>> begins, and save the setting. You can tweak the settings to get that
>>>>>> hiss up to 99 db below what it is, and if you do it right, the hiss
>>>>>> will be virtually gone leaving the recording even better than the
>>>>>> original, I know, I've done it several hundred times.
>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>> Curtis Delzer
>>>>>> At 05:18 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in 
>>>>>>> my
>>>>> Book
>>>>>>> Port.  So here's the question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo.  (I record using 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then
>>>>> reverse
>>>>>>> tracks 3 and 4.  I then resample the recordings so the speed is
>>>>>>> normal,
>>>>>>> combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later 
>>>>>>> suck
>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the Book Port.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the
>>>>>>> hiss
>>>>> if
>>>>>>> not the crosstalk?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my 
>>>>>>> source.
>>>>>> Trust
>>>>>>> me, I get that already!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nolan Crabb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other
>>>>>>> lists we offer, visit us on the web at
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
>>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org
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>>>>>> we
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 02:26 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>>> Nolan, I have had good results in removing crosstalk by using the
>>>>>>> Noise Gate function in the SF8 menu.  That's Noise Gate rather than
>>>>>>> Noise Reduction.  You need to tinker with the decibel setting -
>>>>>>> somewhere between -30 and -35 worked best for me without cutting off
>>>>>>> the speech at the end of phrases, and you still get crosstalk
>>>>>>> sometimes during the speech, but it made a big difference in the 
>>>>>>> final
>>>>>>> product.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I endorse Curtis's suggestion (posted later) of using a commercial
>>>>>>> stereo cassette deck, and resampling and reversing tracks to get the
>>>>>>> final result.  It's a little more technically intensive, but the
>>>>>>> results are worth it.  I would love to know Curtis's secret for
>>>>>>> removing as much hiss as he does with Noise Reduction.  I could 
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> achieve those results, which I am sure is more a comment on the
>>>>>>> operator than on the product.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Nolan Crabb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>> To: "'PC audio discussion list. '" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:18 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in 
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> Book
>>>>>>> Port.  So here's the question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo.  (I record using 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then
>>>>>>> reverse
>>>>>>> tracks 3 and 4.  I then resample the recordings so the speed is
>>>>>>> normal,
>>>>>>> combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later 
>>>>>>> suck
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the Book Port.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the
>>>>>>> hiss if
>>>>>>> not the crosstalk?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my 
>>>>>>> source.
>>>>>>> Trust
>>>>>>> me, I get that already!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nolan Crabb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
>>>>>>> http://www.pc-audio.org
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