I believe in Gold Wave. It's gotten a lot of knocking over the years from 
people who sincerely believe that anything other than Sound Forge is a 
hopeless program to use.

Bruce

-- 
Bruce Toews
E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net
Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Curtis Delzer wrote:

> What are you writing at first 22,050hz at 16Bit  or smaller? in
> stereo, you could only go about 6 hours and 40 minutes at that rate
> before you'd fill a fat 32 disk with 2 gigabytes. 24K mp3s don't
> really sound that good, the smallest I do is 32K or 32K at the lowest
> vbr rating of the encoder engine I use, can't spell frahnhoffer but I
> tried, but, again, on the BP  24K mp3s I guess are ok. One mp3 at
> that length would be a little unwieldy to me, but that is just
> individual preference, and the bp does keep track of where you're
> reading in any case. What is a *.pca file?
> I am going to give GoldWave a look to see how they use noise
> reduction or how their native noise reduction works, it's worth
> the$50 because of the support to keyboards the program continues to
> have as well.
> Bruce, you're a good promulgator of the program, :) <grin>
>
> Curtis Delzer
>
> At 04:12 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote:
>> No, I'm doing many of the same things you mentioned already.  I'm getting
>> rid of beginnings and endings of all sides, blowing off all references to
>> cassettes in general.
>>
>> When I'm done, I have a single MP3, 24 KBPS, that works nicely in the Book
>> Port.
>>
>> I dug out the deck, and the crosstalk is no more.
>>
>> Sixteen sides is the most I've ever digitized--made for a heck of a file,
>> but it worked.
>>
>> I guess I could do all that region creation stuff, which makes sense, but I
>> save each side as a .pca file, then I combine them and render them as a
>> single MP3.  I don't even keep the stuff about "continuing on page
>> such-and-such" at the beginning of every side.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer
>> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:54 AM
>> To: PC audio discussion list.
>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>
>> I initially forgot a couple steps, very important. After you've
>> recorded your "stereo" file with each track/side in the left and
>> right channels, you need to select the entire file and copy it to the
>> clip board and paste it into another window, one which is mono so the
>> sound will be in the center. OOPS, sorry about that.
>> You can do all the processing if you wish first before you do the
>> pasting into your mono file, but it is important if you can, to put
>> markers while the initial recording is being made when the cassette
>> sides end so you can find them in an 8 side file, for example, which
>> is just about the limit for fat32 (at 44,100Hz at 16bit stereo), if
>> you use that format on your hard drive. So, let's say you've recorded
>> your stereo file, 2 cassettes long which is about 3 hours, (probably
>> 2:56 or so), select it all, then paste it into your mono file. First,
>> the left channel, then the right channel. When you reverse the right
>> channel, after you've done that, your 11 hour file will look like
>> this; again after you've sampled down to 22,050Hz in mono, side 1, 2,
>> 5, 6, 7, 8, 3, 4, (from least to most time, left to right. I label
>> each region paying very close attention to the narrator so the
>> numbers coincide, but I don't keep him saying "side 2, side 3, etc.
>> and also I don't keep, "this book is up to 4 sides per cassette, or
>> "so many pages on so many sides," in digital format, (again just my
>> opinion, it is not needed, and, "to skip such and such in this book,
>> fast forward until a beep is heard, stop at that point to hear x x x,
>> or the beginning of the book."
>> The markers, though you made them going forward, after you've
>> reversed the right channel, the markers will be close to where the
>> "reversed" sides begin' or' end, but you'll have to hunt a bit. Make
>> new markers at the beginning and end of where you wish to create your
>> regions, so in that way if the left or right end of the region area
>> gets lost or unselected, you can readily find it again.
>> I just recorded, finished, "Undue Influence," by Steven Martini
>> tonight, while the Rose Bowl was going on, GO TEXAS! :) They did win,
>> during side 10 about 30 minutes before I finished the initial
>> recording before processing.
>>
>> At 04:47 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>> Thank you for such kind words, and I will do what I can to reveal
>>> what I do to get rid of noise in sound forge.
>>> Here is a message I sent to Nolan about it, but I'll amplify.
>>> Well, this is "off list," so no prob, and as far as replying, hey,
>>> what are we here
>>> fore, to help one another? Damn right! So, I enjoy it since I've done
>>> many hundred
>>> books and know how valuable it is when you hear something which,
>>> going in sounded
>>> like that unmentionable schtuff you mentioned, but coming out sounds
>>> fantastic! I,
>>> presume, you do have the sound forge noise reduction plug in, so if
>>> you do, then
>>> you're going to find that it will do a magnificent job, especially if
>>> you can get
>>> it to sample the sound in such a way that it automatically picks the
>>> "hiss," and/or
>>> the "noise" it is suppose to hear, and not what you don't want it to
>>> reduce like
>>> the voice. Since you've recorded in SF before and know how to
>>> reverse, what I do
>>> is make a region for each side of each cassette, and then have sf
>>> write those regions
>>> to specific *.wav files, and then use something else to make the mp3s
>>> at 32K or 32K
>>> with vbr so the sound is as good as it should be. I record at
>>> 44,100Hz and then change
>>> the sample rate to 22,050, (NOT RESAMPLE) just change the sample rate
>>> so the pitch
>>> halves, to resample would not change the pitch but you'd loose
>>> quality, and then
>>> apply noise reduction since the noise you wish for the NR to hear
>>> would be at the
>>> correct pitch as well.
>>> I hope some of this rambling helps. You can change the amount of
>>> noise reduction
>>> in the nr reduction plug-in, rather than use the preset of "0.250
>>> seconds (a quarter
>>> second) (for fast computers) and then, since it's mode 1, you can
>>> then change the
>>> amount of supression in db. The "sample noise" checkbox should be
>>> checked, and when
>>> you first have it sample a noise, it auto unchecks itself since the
>>> nr plug-in has
>>> found the sample and made it's configuration and to that noise it's
>>> sampled, it's
>>> set. Change the db slider to, let's say, minus 40 DB and while
>>> listening to the "preview"
>>> you'll be amazed how wonderfully it will work. Then, save the
>>> setting, but make sure,
>>> before you save that setting, that the sample checkbox is then,
>>> checked, since if
>>> you use that setting in the future for another minus 40 db sample,
>>> you wish it to
>>> sample at least a quarter second of noise automatically, and by
>>> default. Many guys
>>> forget that checkbox and figure that since the slider is set for
>>> minus 40 db, it
>>> will get rid of the noise, forgetting that it needs to sample first
>>> some noise before
>>> it can apply it's magic to what you wish it to hear, not a voice or
>>> music. Plan to
>>> use a selected part of the noise when you make the nr plug-in hear
>>> noise, (the beginning
>>> of each side of a book is plenty of room for it) and you'll be really
>>> pleased, I
>>> guarantee.
>>> That dec, will make a huge difference though the handi-cassette is
>>> good one track
>>> at a time, even has better or less cross talk one track at a time,
>>> but is tedious
>>> that way. Recording off that dec in your garage (when you set it up)
>>> the right channel
>>> is tracks 4 and 3 sides 1 and 2 of the tape, and you know that if you
>>> first record
>>> 1 cassette, that if you press tab it will put the left channel by
>>> itself into a way
>>> which you can work with separately. Press tab until you hear only the
>>> right channel,
>>> then reverse it all at once. Then you should down sample, normalize,
>>> noise reduce,
>>> make regions for sides (which for best results should be noise
>>> reduced separately)
>>> and then have sf make your *.wav files.
>>> Getting to those sliders for minus db can be problematic, though,
>>> fortunately I have jfw 5.0 and it's native sound forge configuration
>>> files, so the sliders can be found. You must play around a good bit
>>> in the plug-in configuration, trying up and down arrow to find out
>>> which field(s) get changed, but when you do and learn which does
>>> change that slider from about minus 12.5 db which is a default
>>> setting when using the preset for "fast computers with 250
>>> millisecond capture, you then will be amazed how well it works,
>>> again, especially, if it just hears noise such as tape hiss or hum
>>> before the recording begins.
>>> I hope all this helps. Take care and write to let me know how you're doing.
>>> Curtis Delzer
>>>
>>> At 02:06 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>> Thanks for the outstanding advice regarding the plug-in and the
>>> handi-cassette.  I knew it was a piece of something unmentionable when it
>>> came to reproducing stereo sound; I need to hunt up my old cassette deck
>>> stored in a box in the garage, and I'll do that this weekend.
>>> I wonder if we could communicate via e-mail off list so I can get a
>> somewhat
>>> better handle on how to even begin to use that plug-in.  I can't even get
>>> the auto trim crop to trim the silence off both ends of the recording
>>> appropriately--obviously operator incompetence alive, well, and at work in
>>> front of my keyboard.  <smile>
>>> Again, Curtis, thanks for replying.  I know it took time out of your life,
>>> and silly and goofy as it sounds, any time I get a reply from anyone, it's
>>> kind of a significant thing, especially when I stop and recognize how busy
>> I
>>> get and how easy it is to just say "poor slob; hope someone somewhere can
>>> figure that out for him," and hit the delete key.  So when I say thanks for
>>> writing back, I truly am grateful.
>>> Where do I even go to activate the plug-in?  I assume I have to select some
>>> tape hiss; that's easy enough to do.
>>> And do you do that before or after you resample?
>>> Nolan Crabb
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [
>>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> ]
>>> On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:18 AM
>>> To: PC audio discussion list.
>>> Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>> Sorry, but the  HANDI-CASSETTE has a lot of cross talk by default,
>>> and nothing in sound forge can correct this. A better way is to use a
>>> regular stereo cassette dec and record tracks 1 and 4, then turn the
>>> cassette over and then record sides 2 and 3. This will make a file
>>> about an hour and a half long, (probably closer to about 84 or 85
>>> minutes give or take). In SF you can press tab and get to either the
>>> left or right side, and you wish to reverse the right channel as you
>>> know. If you have the SF noise reduction plut-in, it is superlative
>>> at getting rid of the hiss. The commercial cassette stereo recorder
>>> has a much better cross talk capability, even a non expensive one.
>>> Somehow, the HANDI-CASSETTE, in stereo, is pretty lousy in this
>>> regard. If you use the sound forge noise reduction plut-in, use a
>>> facility in it which lets you sample the hiss in such a way that it
>>> is beyond the beginning of the tape and just before the narrator
>>> begins, and save the setting. You can tweak the settings to get that
>>> hiss up to 99 db below what it is, and if you do it right, the hiss
>>> will be virtually gone leaving the recording even better than the
>>> original, I know, I've done it several hundred times.
>>> Good luck!
>>> Curtis Delzer
>>> At 05:18 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote:
>>> >Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this.
>>> >
>>> >I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in my
>> Book
>>> >Port.  So here's the question:
>>> >
>>> >I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of the
>>> >crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo.  (I record using a
>>> >handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then
>> reverse
>>> >tracks 3 and 4.  I then resample the recordings so the speed is normal,
>>> >combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later suck
>> into
>>> >the Book Port.
>>> >
>>> >How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the hiss
>> if
>>> >not the crosstalk?
>>> >
>>> >Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my source.
>>> Trust
>>> >me, I get that already!
>>> >
>>> >Thanks for any help you can give.
>>> >
>>> >Nolan Crabb
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >_______________________________________________
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>>> At 02:26 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
>>>> Nolan, I have had good results in removing crosstalk by using the
>>>> Noise Gate function in the SF8 menu.  That's Noise Gate rather than
>>>> Noise Reduction.  You need to tinker with the decibel setting -
>>>> somewhere between -30 and -35 worked best for me without cutting off
>>>> the speech at the end of phrases, and you still get crosstalk
>>>> sometimes during the speech, but it made a big difference in the final
>>>> product.
>>>>
>>>> I endorse Curtis's suggestion (posted later) of using a commercial
>>>> stereo cassette deck, and resampling and reversing tracks to get the
>>>> final result.  It's a little more technically intensive, but the
>>>> results are worth it.  I would love to know Curtis's secret for
>>>> removing as much hiss as he does with Noise Reduction.  I could never
>>>> achieve those results, which I am sure is more a comment on the
>>>> operator than on the product.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nolan Crabb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: "'PC audio discussion list. '" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use in my
>>>> Book
>>>> Port.  So here's the question:
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some of
>>>> the
>>>> crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo.  (I record using a
>>>> handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, then
>>>> reverse
>>>> tracks 3 and 4.  I then resample the recordings so the speed is
>>>> normal,
>>>> combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later suck
>>>> into
>>>> the Book Port.
>>>>
>>>> How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least the
>>>> hiss if
>>>> not the crosstalk?
>>>>
>>>> Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my source.
>>>> Trust
>>>> me, I get that already!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any help you can give.
>>>>
>>>> Nolan Crabb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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