----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
Hi Gary.
Yes, that rough calculation is based on 128kbps which equates to 1MB per minute of music. So, at 128kbps you're going to get 700 minutes of music ripped at that quality or approximately 11 hours. Now, if you rip at 192kbps your files are going to be 1 and a half times bigger. So, at 192kbps you're going to get 400 minutes of music or approximately 7 hours.
These are very approximate estimates so don't sue me.
Regards.
Kevin
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
tenthHi Kevin. Thanks for the interesting information. How many hours of playing time can you get with 192 kbps. They say that MP3 files are athe size of wav files. Is that figured at 128 kbps?extensive.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>I don't know whether the issues with the full version of 1.51 were only
> screen reader related but they may well be. I don't think there's a
> company
> behind this software just a very generous individual. People pay for > an
> interface that isn't as accessible and easy to use as CDEX and yet uses
> exactly the same encoder so it really is the best freeware around as > far
> as
> I'm concerned.
>
> That's why the documentation for variable bit usage is not thatthe> It's not a CDEX feature, it's a lame feature. These are all settings > provided by the lame encoder and the CDEX developer has just given some > basic details on what settings can be changed in the lame encoder. > > I'll take a look at the average bit rate setting which I believe is > VBR-ABR > as you mentioned. However, I wouldn't use this method of ripping over> variable bit rate as it works subtly differently. With average bitrate,192kbps> the whole file is analysed and the average calculated so if you have a > file > that is 2 minutes of 128kbps and 2 minutes of 256kbps, the average is > going > to be 192kbps. With this setting the whole file will be ripped at> so you use more space in the 2 minutes of 128kbps that you didn't > reallyat
> need and you lose 128kbps of extra sound information from the 2 minutesat> 256kbps that is required for high quality reproduction. > > With variable bit rate, in the example above, you'd have got 2 minutes> 128kbps and 2 minutes at 256kbps as each frame of the MP3 file isanalysedsize> individually to ascertain how many bits per second are required to > reproduce > high quality sound. > > In this very simplistic example, both files would have been the same> `192kbps multiplied by 4 minutes and 128kbps multiplied by 2 minutesplus> 256kbps multiplied by 2 minutes.of
>
> Regards.
> Kevin
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>
>
>> I'm curious. If the full version didn't work, and the company knew >> it,
> why
>> didn't they just work on it until it was ready for prime time instead>> leaving this Beta thing online for download? Is it possible that itwas>> only with screen reader people that it failed, and is in use >> otherwise,then
>> so
>> that only blind users are still using the beta, instead of the >> finished
>> product?
>> I
>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>>
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> There was a full version of CDEX released after this beta but
> unfortunately
>> version 1.51 didn't work on many peoples machines and so the beta >> lived
> on.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Kevin
>> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>>
>>
>> > Ah, so the Control A select all works, even though control homeandselect>> > select to end didn't? Interesting. In other such situations, often >> control >> > A won't work, but if you go to the top or bottom of an area andthinking>> home >> > or select end, that will copy all. ah, I know what it is I'm> of.the
>> > The General or Details tabs of the properties display for an Outlook
>> Express
>> > message.
>> >
>> > Okay. I'll look again...
>> > One more thing about the version of CdEx. How come it's a Beta
>> > version?
>> > Isn't there going to be a final version released?
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 12:27 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>> >
>> >
>> > I use that version of CDEX as I think most people on the list do.
>> > There
>> is
>> > actually an updated version 1.6 available now but I'm not sure what>> newselect
>> > features are.
>> >
>> > It's true that when you hit enter on a help topic, JAWS will start
> reading
>> > the page. You can't use your PC cursor to read the page back but >> > you
> can
>> > use the JAWS cursor to do so. Alternatively, use control + A toand>> and >> > control + C to copy and paste into a word document. This does workfrom>> > here's the CDEX introduction copied in exactly that way. >> > >> > Introduction >> > >> > >> > This document describes CDex, a utility for extracting sound filesother>> CDs >> > in your CD-ROM drive, and for converting WAV files into several>> > (compressed) formats, like the popular MP3 format.even
>> >
>> > The latest version of CDex can be downloaded from:
>> > http://www.cdex.n3.net
>> >
>> > System Requirements
>> > Status of CDex
>> > Acknowledgements
>> > Change log
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 8:14 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>> >
>> >
>> > > One more thing: I just opened the copy of CdEx on my computer and
>> > attempted
>> > > to study the help file topics about things I need to learn. Butfine>> > though >> > > the topic list is set up like a tree view, and I can navigate itEnter,>> and >> > > open books or topics to arrow to their sub topics, when I hitmy> I'm >> > > taken to a page that >> > > 1. starts reading audotmatically in Jaws if I don't touch the > keyboard, >> > but >> > > can't be read deliberately with the arrow keys and Jaws reading >> > keystrokes. >> > > I thought maybe I could compensate by selecting and copying each >> topics's >> > > text to the clipboard and pasting into a text editor to read, butmore>> > attempt >> > > to do this also failed, for some reason. >> > > >> > > Also, the text seems incomplete, from what I can figure out, like >> > > only >> > topic >> > > headings are given but then there's no actual writing beyond that. >> > > >> > > 2. I checked my version of CdEx, and I wonder if it's not really >> > > what > I >> > > ought to be using if I want to have the latest configuration and>> > usableand
>> > > or fully written help documentation. I have version 1.51 Beta. A
>> friend
>> > > put it on my system, saying it's what he uses. But is this out of
> date?
>> > If
>> > > so, where do I go to download the latest version of CdEx?
>> > >
>> > > thanks.
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:53 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Daniel.
>> > >
>> > > CDEX will allow you to use a number of encoders to rip your musicbest>> > allow >> > > you to use constant or variable bit rates. The WMA format is > available >> > but >> > > not all bit rates are supported for the version of the encoder > included. >> > > >> > > Saying that, the default Lame encoder is regarded as one of theaudio> MP3 >> > > encoders around and in comparison tests I've done myself and read > about, >> > it >> > > out performs WMA with most music genres. >> > > >> > > With regards to your question on burning the compressed MP3 or WMA > files >> > to >> > > CD, well, you have the choice when burning to either create an> CDburn
>> > for
>> > > play in a standard CD player which will convert the compressed >> > > file
> into
>> > WAV
>> > > and then CDDA or you can burn the files to a data CD which willThere>> them >> > > exactly as they are on your hard drive. That is, compressed.> areMP3
>> > > increasing numbers of players on the market now, both portable and
>> genuine
>> > > hi-fi, that will play these data CD's with your MP3 music. This
>> > > means
>> you
>> > > could have 10 albums or more on a single disc. Kelly's point was
>> exactly
>> > > this that MP3 is still the most popular compressed format and most
> well
>> > > supported. You wouldn't want to rip a collection of CD's into WMA
>> > > and
>> > find
>> > > that you couldn't play them on anything else but your computer.
>> > > Maybe
>> you
>> > > might now but chances are you'll want to take them with you at >> > > some
>> point
>> > > and want to invest in a portable player. Having them ripped into>> willthe
>> > > give you a much greater choice of player when that day comes.
>> > >
>> > > Regards.
>> > >
>> > > Kevin
>> > > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:17 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Kelly,
>> > > > thanks for responding. I have a copy of CdEx, though I forget>> > > version.it
>> > > > But it doesn't offer any .wma possibilities at all, only .mp3 >> > > > and
>> .wav.
>> > > > Does this mean I have an old version of it? Someone else loadedarray>> onto >> > > my >> > > > system for me. If I can update and see a more comprehensive> ofwill
>> > > > compression options, that'd be reassuring.
>> > > >
>> > > > Also, I confess I don't understand about wither a compressed >> > > > file
> can
>> > play
>> > > > on a CD player: From what I've learned so far, I have the
> impression
>> > that
>> > > > if you burn an .mp3 or other compressed music file to a CD, itto> be >> > > > converted, either manually or, in some programs, automatically,>> > > > ato
>> > .wav
>> > > > file to be burned. Isn't this so? If it is, then what does it
> matter
>> > > > whether the file on your hard drive is .mp3 or .wma?
>> > > >
>> > > > Please explain further. I'm educating myself with your help.
>> > > > thanks,
>> > > > Daniel
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "Kelly Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> > > > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:28 PM
>> > > > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > the options you mentioned with Windows media ripping are also
>> available
>> > in
>> > > > ripping MP3s with CDEX. remember it is in Microsoft's interest>> makeencoding,
>> > > > windows Media appear to be a much more attractive experience >> > > > than
> the
>> > > > infinitely portable and compatible MP3 format. With MP3bit>> files >> > > can >> > > > be encoded on various levels of quality, with fixed or variablecan>> > rates >> > > in >> > > > full stereo. >> > > > >> > > > One thing to consider is the likelihood that the files you ripplayers> be >> > > played >> > > > on other people's computers with different kinds and versions of >> > software >> > > > and on portable devices in the present and future. many CDMedia>> can >> > > play >> > > > MP3 files but only a fraction of these can also play Windows>> > files.play
>> > > > to verify this, just go to bestbuy.com and review the portable >> > > > CD
>> > players
>> > > > available for sale. Most play MP3 files but only one can also>> > > windowsat
>> > > > Media files as well.
>> > > >
>> > > > I encode most of the music I rip in MP3 at 256 bit in full >> > > > stereo
>> > > > at
>> the
>> > > > very highest quality.
>> > > >
>> > > > Kelly
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > > To: "PC-Audio" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org>
>> > > > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:39 AM
>> > > > Subject: Understanding and comparing compression formats
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > I've just been learning how to rip music from CDs to my hard
>> > > > > drive
>> > using
>> > > > > several different programs, and the one that interests me mostoffers.>> > > present >> > > > > is >> > > > > Windows Media Player because of the variety of formats itYou>> > > > > >> > > > > As I explore and test these formats, one thing confuses me:counting> can >> > rip >> > > > > Windows Media Audio files about six different ways, notown> the >> > > > > lossless option. Now, I'm aware that .mp3 ripping can be >> > > > > adjusted >> to >> > > use >> > > > > bit rates higher than the default 128 in order to restore a >> > > > > little >> of >> > > the >> > > > > information that a lower bit rate strips out. >> > > > > >> > > > > but understanding that is simple compared to the range of .wma >> > options. >> > > > > Here's the main thing that puzzles me. In the WMP menu for > setting >> > your >> > > > > rip >> > > > > options, there are *two* sets of .wma options, each with its>> rangeand
>> > > of
>> > > > > sound quality level.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > First is the .wma choice that uses a slider to provide you
>> > > > > with,as
> I
>> > > > > recall,
>> > > > > three levels of sound quality. I've ripped the same track >> > > > > with
> all
>> > > three,
>> > > > > and not only listened to them-- the differences are audible to
>> > > > > me,
>> > > > > although
>> > > > > pretty subtle compared to the difference between any of themreally>> > > > > a >> > less >> > > > > compressed lossless or uncompress .wav version. Still, for >> > > > > saving >> > > space, >> > > > > I >> > > > > appreciate the compression, so I remain interested. >> > > > > >> > > > > Okay. So the smallest .wma sound quality level creates a>> smallfor
>> > > > > file,
>> > > > > much smaller than the same tune ripped to .mp3. And it >> > > > > doesn't
>> sound
>> > > any
>> > > > > worse than the .mp3, was my impression. The next higher >> > > > > levels
>> create
>> > > > > larger files, with the highest quality level creating a filego> any >> > > given >> > > > > track that's about the same size as a 192 bit rate .mp3. If Ibetter>> this >> > > > > way, >> > > > > I'd suppose that's the method I'd use, so you get a littlebit>> > sound >> > > > > quality than an .mp3 for the same file size. >> > > > > >> > > > > But then, right beneath this on that menu, there's a variableHow>> rate >> > > > > .wma >> > > > > option, again set by a slider, but this time starting at 0 per > cent >> > and >> > > > > going up. Zero per cent of what? And, more to the point, if >> > > > > this >> has >> > > to >> > > > > do >> > > > > with changing bit rates (doesn't the other method, I wonder?the>> else >> > > > > would >> > > > > you change quality except by varying the bit rate?) where areto>> > > > > indications for *what* bit rate this slider takes you through? >> > > > > >> > > > > So that's it. I'm really wondering about this stuff as I tryfeel>> > settle >> > > on >> > > > > a >> > > > > preferred rip method to set for my usual use. Does anyone >> understand >> > > > > whatever it is I'm not getting about these two adjustable .ma >> formats? >> > > Is >> > > > > there anywhere to read a simple primer about them? I don'tthat> the >> > > need >> > > > > to >> > > > > do research if someone can just explain what it is I'm not >> > > understanding. >> > > > > But just in case there's some online information about this>> would5/6/2005
>> > > > > clarify it all, that would be fine, too.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > Daniel
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -- >> > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> > > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> > > > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date:
> 5/4/2005
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
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>> > > > >
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>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
>> > > > http://www.pc-audio.org
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>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -- >> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> > > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date:
>> > > > 5/6/2005
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -- >> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> > > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date:
>> > > > 5/6/2005
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > >
>> > > -- >> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date:>> > >5/6/2005
>> > >
>> > >
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>> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
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>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005
>> >
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>> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>>
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>>
>> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005
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>>
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