Good point; apparently the doctorine does protect against the case whereby any collected data would have been found anway "with a court order."
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com> wrote: > > On Jun 21, 2013, at 5:10 PM, Phil Fagan <philfa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I would think this is only an issue if they throw out the Fourth in that > when they use that data collected "inadvertantly" to build a case a against > you they use no other data collected under a proper warrant. > > > That statement ignores a longstanding legal principle known as "fruit of > the poison tree". > > If the purpose was to actually collect data on you, in the event you do > something , they can simply run a query against this data post court > order...then that's crossing the line. > > > Indeed, they don't even seem to be required to bother with the court order > any more. The standing FISA order seems to pretty much allow them to do all > the required line crossing without any additional court order. > > I personally think there is nothing wrong with monitoring US > communications - big difference between monitoring US communications and > monitoring US persons communications. > > > It's pretty clear that they are likely monitoring both. > > Owen > > > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Dan White <dwh...@olp.net> wrote: > >> On 06/09/13 11:10 -0500, Dan White wrote: >> >>> Let me put my gold tipped tinfoil hat on in response to your statement. >>> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/**world/2013/jun/20/fisa-court-** >> nsa-without-warrant<http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/20/fisa-court-nsa-without-warrant> >> >> If accurate, this is extremely concerning: >> >> >> >> Top secret documents submitted to the court that oversees surveillance >> by US >> intelligence agencies show the judges have signed off on broad orders >> which >> allow the NSA to make use of information "inadvertently" collected from >> domestic US communications without a warrant. >> >> The documents show that even under authorities governing the collection >> of >> foreign intelligence from foreign targets, US communications can still >> be >> collected, retained and used. >> >> ...However, alongside those provisions, the Fisa court-approved policies >> allow the NSA to: >> >> • Keep data that could potentially contain details of US persons for up >> to five years; >> >> Retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic >> communications >> if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, >> threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed >> to >> contain any information relevant to cybersecurity; >> >> >> >> All protections afforded by the fourth amendment have essentially been >> thrown into the (rather large) bit bucket by the FISA court, when it comes >> to any bits which leave your premise. >> >> -- >> Dan White >> >> > > > -- > Phil Fagan > Denver, CO > 970-480-7618 > > > -- Phil Fagan Denver, CO 970-480-7618
