> > You don't need everything in the world to support it, just the things > "you" use.
You run an ISP, let me posit something. Stipulate your entire network infra, services, and applications support 240/4, and that it's approved for global , public use tomorrow. Some company gets a block in there, stands up some website. Here are some absolutely plausible scenarios that you might have to deal with. - Some of your customers are running operating systems / network gear that doesn't support 240/4. - Some of your customers may be using 3rd party DNS resolvers that don't support 240/4. - Some network in between you and the dest missed a few bogon ACLs , dropping your customer's traffic. All of this becomes support issues you have to deal with. On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 2:21 PM Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote: > I wouldn't say it's unknowable, just that no one with a sufficient enough > interest in the cause has been loud enough with the research they've done, > assuming some research has been done.. > > You don't need everything in the world to support it, just the things > "you" use. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Tom Beecher" <beec...@beecher.cc> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net> > *Cc: *"Ryan Hamel" <r...@rkhtech.org>, "Abraham Y. Chen" < > ayc...@alum.mit.edu>, nanog@nanog.org > *Sent: *Friday, January 12, 2024 1:16:53 PM > *Subject: *Re: Stealthy Overlay Network Re: 202401100645.AYC Re: IPv4 > address block > > How far are we from that, in reality? I don't have any intention on using >> the space, but I would like to put some definition to this boogey man. > > > It's unknowable really. > > Lots of network software works just fine today with it. Some don't. To my > knowledge some NOS vendors have outright refused to support 240/4 unless > it's reclassified. Beyond network equipment, there is an unknowable number > of software packages , drivers, etc out in the world which 240/4 is still > hardcoded not to work. It's been unfortunate to see this fact handwaved > away in many discussions on the subject. > > The Mirai worm surfaced in 2016. The software vulnerabilities used in its > attack vectors are still unpatched and present in massive numbers > across the internet; there are countless variants that still use the same > methods, 8 years later. Other vulnerabilities still exist after > multiple decades. But we somehow think devices will be patched to support > 240/4 quickly? > > It's just unrealistic. > > On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 1:03 PM Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> " every networking vendor, hardware vendor, and OS vendor" >> >> How far are we from that, in reality? I don't have any intention on using >> the space, but I would like to put some definition to this boogey man. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Ryan Hamel" <r...@rkhtech.org> >> *To: *"Abraham Y. Chen" <ayc...@avinta.com>, "Vasilenko Eduard" < >> vasilenko.edu...@huawei.com> >> *Cc: *"Abraham Y. Chen" <ayc...@alum.mit.edu>, nanog@nanog.org >> *Sent: *Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:04:31 PM >> *Subject: *Re: Stealthy Overlay Network Re: 202401100645.AYC Re: IPv4 >> address block >> >> Abraham, >> >> You may not need permission from the IETF, but you effectively need it >> from every networking vendor, hardware vendor, and OS vendor. If you do not >> have buy in from key stakeholders, it's dead-on arrival. >> >> Ryan >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+ryan=rkhtech....@nanog.org> on behalf of >> Abraham Y. Chen <ayc...@avinta.com> >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2024 6:38:52 PM >> *To:* Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.edu...@huawei.com> >> *Cc:* Chen, Abraham Y. <ayc...@alum.mit.edu>; nanog@nanog.org < >> nanog@nanog.org> >> *Subject:* Stealthy Overlay Network Re: 202401100645.AYC Re: IPv4 >> address block >> >> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take >> care when clicking links or opening attachments. >> >> Hi, Vasilenko: >> >> 1) ... These “multi-national conglo” has enough influence on the IETF >> to not permit it.": >> >> As classified by Vint Cerf, 240/4 enabled EzIP is an overlay network >> that may be deployed stealthily (just like the events reported by the >> RIPE-LAB). So, EzIP deployment does not need permission from the IETF. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Abe (2024-01-11 21:38 EST) >> >> >> >> >> On 2024-01-11 01:17, Vasilenko Eduard wrote: >> >> > It has been known that multi-national conglomerates have been using it >> without announcement. >> >> This is an assurance that 240/4 would never be permitted for Public >> Internet. These “multi-national conglo” has enough influence on the IETF >> to not permit it. >> >> Ed/ >> >> *From:* NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+vasilenko.eduard=huawei....@nanog.org >> <nanog-bounces+vasilenko.eduard=huawei....@nanog.org>] *On Behalf Of *Abraham >> Y. Chen >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 3:35 PM >> *To:* KARIM MEKKAOUI <amekka...@mektel.ca> <amekka...@mektel.ca> >> *Cc:* nanog@nanog.org; Chen, Abraham Y. <ayc...@alum.mit.edu> >> <ayc...@alum.mit.edu> >> *Subject:* 202401100645.AYC Re: IPv4 address block >> *Importance:* High >> >> >> >> Hi, Karim: >> >> >> >> 1) If you have control of your own equipment (I presume that your >> business includes IAP - Internet Access Provider, since you are asking to >> buy IPv4 blocks.), you can get a large block of reserved IPv4 address *for >> free* by *disabling* the program codes in your current facility that has >> been *disabling* the use of 240/4 netblock. Please have a look at the >> below whitepaper. Utilized according to the outlined disciplines, this is a >> practically unlimited resources. It has been known that multi-national >> conglomerates have been using it without announcement. So, you can do so >> stealthily according to the proposed mechanism which establishes uniform >> practices, just as well. >> >> >> >> https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet.pdf >> >> >> >> 2) Being an unorthodox solution, if not controversial, please follow >> up with me offline. Unless, other NANOGers express their interests. >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> >> >> Abe (2024-01-10 07:34 EST) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2024-01-07 22:46, KARIM MEKKAOUI wrote: >> >> Hi Nanog Community >> >> >> >> Any idea please on the best way to buy IPv4 blocs and what is the price? >> >> >> >> Thank you >> >> >> >> KARIM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >> >> Virus-free.www.avast.com >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
