On 20 Dec 2015 at 17:25, Luke Small wrote: 8<------ lots of drivel snipped ------->8 > ... but a > normal user shouldn't have to wade through man pages to discover how to fix > ...
This is the crux of the issue -- linux upbringing! If you bothered to read the FAQ or scan through some message threads on the mailing lists you would know that: a) ALL users are expected to read the man pages, because b) OpenBSD deservedly prides itself on the accuracy, completelness, and readability of the documentation -- the man pages and the FAQ. If you value gooey compexity because you cannot be bothered to learn about the tool you plan to use, please go away and pick one of the many shiny toys that promise you what you want. I, for one, very much appreciate the OpenBSD way of no-nonsense, minimalist interfaces balanced with very comprehensive documentation. > > > -Luke > > On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:33 PM, <li...@wrant.com> wrote: > > > On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 14:03:18 -0600 Luke Small <lukensm...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > I don't know the best way, but I like how there are "check-boxes", from > > > what I recall, in lynx webpages. > > > > And? Bookmarks or... direct private cumulus clouds of edible sugar, > > preferably in cyanide algae nuances with self attaching axons. > > > > > Maybe full-disk encryption and maybe home > > > folder encryption if it is available are the only remaining installer > > > > It's called a directory, which is a file, and not a drawer, and not a > > folder, neither a closet, nor a wardrobe nor even a chest. > > > > > options that you don't have to have prior specialized knowledge to > > perform, > > > that you can't do after you boot into the system. > > > > I'm sorry to break up the bubble for you but prior knowledge is a > > prerequisite and this is not exclusive to OpenBSD. Anything you can do > > in the installer can also be done after installation, except probably > > finding a list of nice check boxes in a JavaScript web page. For that > > you need to use www. > > > > > If there are other > > > things, then it may become a little less tedious for less experienced > > folks > > > to look at all the options at once, rather than having to start over. > > > > Many inexperienced folds tried OpenBSD first and did not have to become > > experienced in other complicated installers. Can you elaborate on > > this? You want a long check list, is that it? > > > > > If > > > there are any irreconcilable differences in options, JavaScript can more > > > easily display that the other changes are incompatible by changing the > > > other options back. > > > > The editor said: scratch this part, messy wording. > > > > > But maybe the OpenBSD way is about no surprises, but it > > > doesn't seem right to only be able to boot into the system in the way you > > > want, > > > > It is a cargo "principle of least astonishment" to be found in another > > set of online docs elsewhere, unrelated perhaps, no? > > > > > if you have the mindset of a Computer Scientist like us, and read the > > > right configuration webpages. > > > > Correction, man pages. They are in English, comprehensive to lower > > intermediate level readers. > > > > > Things like not having softdep mounted file > > > systems by default really tripped me up for a couple versions. > > > > There is a clear section on this in the Frequently Asked Questions. It > > is a very nice idea to read these prior or during installation on the > > other computer, or why not print out sections you best liked or thought > > useful for the upcoming installation process. > > > > > I have > > > virtualbox HDs and I had to keep backups in case Windows did something > > > funny, because I sometimes couldn't repair the file systems. > > > > Can you point where the docs say "install in a virtualbox" or any other > > virtual software brand for what it matters? > > > > > It seems like > > > something that should be an option in the installer, or a default. It > > would > > > be nice to do that with noatime and maybe an optional mfs or tmpfs > > mounted > > > /tmp folder like I have now. > > > > So you're basically proposing to rewrite the installer in JavaScript to > > add the noatime and softdep mount options, add full disk and home > > directory encryption, use the SSL tool kit and also make it like a text > > menu installer with a lot of check boxes and... web based interface, > > and be able to install in a virtual machine with memory based file > > systems? > > > > Why don't you just pick the install media of the operating system that > > offers you these nice goodies, and save yourself the rewrite. Oh, and > > then come back teach how to do it. > > > > If this seems too much to ask, just simply use the installer in OpenBSD > > as it is, and after a couple of iterations, and some (minutes/years) of > > enlightenment, you will start to appreciate the time and effort is has > > saved you and the powerful options provided without constraints. > > > > What you're suggesting is more limiting than you thought originally. > > I'm sorry to have wasted your time reading this, Luke.
