----- Original Message ----- > Hi. > > If I understand correctly, this is off topic here, as much as generic > hardware or networking issues or whatever. General cryptology and > associated legal issues in this sense (again as I understand you) are > not specific to OpenBSD being vendor neutral issues. > That said I'm all for this discussion. > Not to pre-empt others (disregarding the initial negative responses), > I think you should be aware there's a valid and consistent case to be > made that this might be one of those cases where you'll get little > traction. > My advice, if this thread doesn't get the traction you like; go > elsewhere. > Insert quotes from Ben Franklin et al. ... choose your audience. > > Regardless. > > While there's a lot of commonality between the US and some of the > rest > of us, we have constitutions of our own (except england of course). > Please don't fall into the trap that any of this stuff is > transferrable. That's a point of law and it stands. > I don't have "freedom of speech", the right to keep and bear arms and > so on. > FYI, I live in a democracy, not a republic. We're transitive. There's > a real world difference. > > Nevertheless, Aristotle nailed this. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modes_of_persuasion > > Those ideas are somewhat intertwined but you've failed. > > You've failed on logos - the facts - give some context. Clear > context. > Why do I or anyone else here care about rights violations? > Without that, prima facie this comes off as a rant without relevance > ... uname(1) or tread lightly. > > You've failed on your pathos - my sympathy or empathy - this is why > this is definitely in the off topic "decisions to be made" grey area. > I don't see a clear connection between LEO and OpenBSD here. See > previous ... uname(1) or tread lightly. > > You've failed to clarify your ethos - I don't believe you. Your > constitution is enough authority but I'm not seeing it presented > appropriately. I admire your conjunction of munitions and the second. > May I use that? > In this case though, open sauce, crypto, second, etcetera are an > entirely different issue to the fourth amendment question - > protection > against unreasonable search and seizure. > You've muddied the waters and failed to convince on either account. > That's the big deal here. The fourth ... > > "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, > papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, > shall > not be violated ..." > http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html#4 > > First? Sure. Publish, done. Matter of course. No infringements. > Right? > Second? Sure. Sidebar. Again off topic but trivially interesting. > > Rubber hose cryptanalysis, the browbeating or otherwise of citizens > to > gain passwords so DHS inter alia, i.e. Border Patrol, can look at > your > stuff is strictly a fourth amendment issue (obliquely a fifth). > That's where you should be thinking. > You live in a common law country with a written constitution - not > something to be assumed. > There's a trodden path. Stand your ground - "no officer ... unless > you > provide a warrant based on probable cause I won't be giving you my > key". > Go read the fourth ... > The key is standing your ground. > Get arrested or worse or combinations of whatever and go from there. > To paraphrase a founding father: > "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little > temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." > Trees need iron. Blood serves fine. Ask Thomas Jefferson ... > Good on you for taking an hour out of your life. Give me something > more than a hypothesis of how bad things are happening that might be > violations and how people that I care about are affected on the > ground > ... > Get arrested or GTFO ... > > I'm not Armorican. I read your constitution and your bill of rights > and study your law and your country. > I've stood up to LEO here. Describe your experience. > Light on the hill. Get the fuck up there. > >
Fantastic points, I'd love to hear more, from both sides. --Tim
