> On Jan 14, 2025, at 9:15 AM, sartesian via groups.io
> <sartesian=earthlink....@groups.io> wrote:
>
> "At a certain stage of development, the material productive forces of society
> come into conflict with the existing relations of production or – this merely
> expresses the same thing in legal terms – with the property relations within
> the framework of which they have operated hitherto. From forms of development
> of the productive forces these relations turn into their fetters. Then begins
> an era of social revolution. The changes in the economic foundation lead
> sooner or later to the transformation of the whole immense superstructure"
> Marx
> If we can't' agree on that, there's no point to further discussion.
I can't agree that you have more than half the story here. You're missing the
dialectical relationship between structure (base) and superstructure.
"... According to the materialist conception of history, the ultimately
determining element in history is the production and reproduction of real life.
Other than this neither Marx nor I have ever asserted. Hence if somebody twists
this into saying that the economic element is the only determining one, he
transforms that proposition into a meaningless, abstract, senseless phrase. The
economic situation is the basis, but the various elements of the superstructure
— political forms of the class struggle and its results, to wit: constitutions
established by the victorious class after a successful battle, etc., juridical
forms, and even the reflexes of all these actual struggles in the brains of the
participants, political, juristic, philosophical theories, religious views and
their further development into systems of dogmas — also exercise their
influence upon the course of the historical struggles and in many cases
preponderate in determining their form. There is an interaction of all these
elements in which, amid all the endless host of accidents (that is, of things
and events whose inner interconnection is so remote or so impossible of proof
that we can regard it as non-existent, as negligible), the economic movement
finally asserts itself as necessary. Otherwise the application of the theory to
any period of history would be easier than the solution of a simple equation of
the first degree." Engels from
https://www.workersliberty.org/files/marx-engels-materialism.pdf
Mark
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