On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 10:51 AM Scott Mutter via mailop <mailop@mailop.org> wrote:
> > It would also give feedback to spammers allowing them to fine-tune their > > messages to avoid getting flagged. > > What about feedback loops? Don't those also fall into the category of > aiding the spammer? But they are also a tool for legitimate mail server > administrators to combat spam on their network. > FBLs only aid the spammer if a spammer is allowed to enroll in the FBL. > I like feedback loops. The information I get back from these are > immensely helpful. The only bone I have to pick is that too-big-to-fail > email service providers still tend to block our servers after we have > received ZERO messages back from the feedback loop. Hard for us to know > that their users are signaling that messages from our servers are spam if > we don't get any feedback. > Users can only click "This is spam" on messages that end up in their inbox. If all of your traffic went to the spam folder, perhaps because it was unfortunately remarkably similar to previous traffic that was deemed spam, you won't get any complaints through an FBL, because the "This is spam" button isn't available when viewing the Spam folder. > My approach to feedback loops is that if I receive a message from a > provider's feedback loop, then that recipient email address is immediately > blocked from receiving any mail from our server. This may be harsh, but it > is what it is. Whether the recipient explicitly tagged the message as spam > that triggered the FBL or if the recipient's mail server algorithm > determined the message was spam and triggered the FBL - I really don't > care. If the recipient wants to dispute this, then they need to either > explain why they tagged the message as spam or they need to get an > explanation from their mail server's algorithm developer as to why the > message was determined to be spam - it's pretty simple to me. > Your approach to FBL complaints is sound, in my opinion. Back when I was doing anti-spam at RoadRunner, it's precisely what I told FBL enrollees to do with complaints - Unsubscribe the complainer. > I do agree that a lot of the messages I get back from the feedback loops - > they're not obvious spam. I don't know if the recipient signed up to > receive mail from a user on our server and then decided they no longer > wanted to receive the message so they flagged it as spam. Or if the > algorithm just decided that after 5 years of receiving similar message THIS > particular message is spam. Either way, I don't care, that recipient gets > blocked from receiving any mail from our server. I don't have the time or > the fortitude to coddle every recipient and every sender with "are you sure > you meant to tag this message as spam?" - they're never going to respond to > such messages, I block them and if that pisses them off... well it pisses > me off every time I have to deal with an overzealous too-big-to-fail email > service provider blocking our servers for no apparent reason. > > As far as I know, Google does not have an FBL service, so there's no way > to get this level of information from Google. > They have a Feedback Loop, but it's not a traditional one. It's part of their Postmaster Tools - https://support.google.com/a/answer/6254652?sjid=15660904710347572920-NA -- *Todd Herr * | Technical Director, Standards & Ecosystem *e:* todd.h...@valimail.com *p:* 703-220-4153 *m:* 703.220.4153 This email and all data transmitted with it contains confidential and/or proprietary information intended solely for the use of individual(s) authorized to receive it. If you are not an intended and authorized recipient you are hereby notified of any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information included in this transmission is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately notify the sender by replying to this email and then delete it from your system.
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