All it does is groups certain things together so you more quickly can jump over them. Plus, it will thus cluster more things into one item, thus making it easy to read in bigger chunks. Basically, then within a group of things, if you want to then click a link within a group, or get to a form within a group etc. then you interact with that group within the ntml content.
HTH. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @chris28210 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Hall To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:52 PM Subject: grouping web items (was mastering the mac) Vo-u is a handy feature. I guess my main sticking point is the lack of a flat representation, so that absolutely every element has to be separated and read individually, with accompanying pauses in speech even with sounds muted. I tried grouping once, but it was much more awkward on forums than dom order so I turned it off. Perhaps I don't really understand how it works? Could you explain that further? On Oct 28, 2012, at 10:46 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote: It might just be an opinion thing, but between the rotor, quick navigation by headings, tables, etc. Plus the fact I turned on Group navigation instead of dom order, then the item chooser, plus vo+F, vo+G, and Vo+Shift G, I find it is extremely pleasant of an experience. Again, it's just my opinion, I never said you had to agree with it. LOL! Chris. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @chris28210 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Hall To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:14 PM Subject: Re: mastering the mac I'm curious: why do you think windows is clunky compared to the mac? I'm not trying to start anything, I just want to understand and see if there's some fundamental thing I'm missing. For instance, when I go to the audiogames.net forums, I have to vo-right a bunch of times through users' information, On Windows I have to arrow less, since some of that information is on one line. However, because it is mostly links, the mac has to separate it all out, regardless of visual layout. The best browsing experience I have ever had is NVDA on Firefox with the option to use page layout enabled. In this meant that links and other controls in text were read along with the text, speeding up my browsing, particularly in articles with much of their text linking to other websites. It also helped when links were laid out horizontally, such as a bar of options above a chunk of text. You could still tab to a link, but if you wanted to skip all the links it was the matter of a single keypress. On the mac you must press an arrow for every link, plus one for any static text between the links such as a vertical bar or comma. On Oct 28, 2012, at 10:04 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote: For the record, I'll say a total 1 80, I think browsing on Windows is the most clunky, worst experience I've ever seen. I'll do it if that happens to be the computer I'm working currently on at the time, but I'd rather not if I could help it. I love y Safari, oh, and let's not forget Google Chrome! Chris. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @chris28210 Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Hall To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:41 PM Subject: Re: mastering the mac It's not you, I think the web browsing experience is smoother on windows because screen readers use a flat representation, so they can do things like read text like a document, not stop at links in text, and so on. I prefer web browsing on windows, just not enough to sacrifice everything else the mac does better. I also like the iCloud tabs feature and really easy downloads interface, just not the actual web browsing experience. As to first letter navigation, just go to the vo utility, the commanders category, the quicknav tab, and check the relevant box. Once in a great while it will still fail, but you can use vo-cmd with many keys to move around if that happens. Vo-cmd-h, for instance, moves to the next heading. For edit fields, I find they behave oddly with quicknav on. If that happens, I just turn it off, type my text, and turn it on if I need it. Between the vo-cmd keystrokes and the web rotor (vo-u), though, I don't use quicknav much at all anymore. On Oct 28, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Kliphton <kliph...@gmail.com> wrote: Okay, I bought my first mac june 2011, it was actually a fathers day present. I went cold turkey for over a month, trying to learn my way around the OS, and how it worked. Over 18 months later, I'd say I am pretty good, and can even help others. I know how to inter act with tables, rename documents, open and close folders and apps, and even a few advanced things. My biggest challenge has been safari. I use the item chooser, and have the things in the rotor that I like to navigate by. But I still find it a little clunky compared to IE. I still have to use windows to manage my business, but that's all I use it for, and of course to download torrents. But does anyone have any hints or tips to help me get over this safari hump? I think my biggest gripe is trying to set up first letter navigation, and trying to inter text in to edit fields. Other than that, I think I got it. But all suggestions are welcome please! Kliphton Senior (Twitter&Skype) kliphton72 (iMessage, facetime&Email) kliph...@gmail.com (Life Journal) Kliphton.wordpress.com (Sharrie’s ScratchPad) missie844.wordpress.com http://facebook.com/kliphandsharrie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) mehg...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
