Esther, absolutely right, and as for the VO shift C, I found that little gem about 3 months ago, and couldn't live without it, it is just so very helpful.
Regards, Neil Barnfather Talks List Administrator Twitter @neilbarnfather TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com URL: - www.talknav.com e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 On 8 Jun 2011, at 23:05, Esther wrote: Hi Neil, You can also interact with the Trackpad Commander, if you have it enabled, by using a two finger swipe to the right, and you can stop interacting by using a two finger swipe to the left. I think you'll find this more convenient to use if you're navigating your home iTunes library and have just flicked right or left to the "sources" list or the "songs" list, and want to interact. Desktop Mac users (or anyone using a full-size keyboard) who have Numpad Commander activated, and are using the default definitions, can press the "9" key of the numeric keypad to start interacting and the "7" key of the keypad to stop interacting. I know that Geoff also said that he found using Trackpad Commander a lot more intuitive way to navigate when he made the transition to the Mac, especially coming from the iPhone background. There are some posts that I've written near the beginning of the year where I actually outline how to navigate both ways: with Trackpad Commander and with keyboard shortcuts. The reason that most list post answers tell people how to navigate with the standard VoiceOver keyboard shortcuts if a specific context is not requested is that these answers work for everybody. Trackpad Commander only works for people who are both running Snow Leopard and have late enough model laptops that support it, or else have bought a Magic TrackPad (if they are Desktop Mac users or have earlier model Mac laptops). Even with older Mac laptops and a Magic TrackPad, the use and gestures are not as intuitive as when you have a new model laptop that innately supports it. We have some people on list who get started with older Macs, and who also may not be running Snow Leopard, so we try to make the replies useful for them, too. I used to try to remember to state what worked for Leopard only for Tiger users, and what had changed for Snow Leopard for Leopard users. This is like trying to mention what combinations are specific to English language input keyboards. Another useful VoiceOver command is VO-Shift-C, which copies the last phrase to the clipboard, and lets you paste it in with Command+V. HTH. Cheers, Esther On Jun 8, 2011, at 09:26, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: > interacting is another Voice Over qwerk, it initially irritated the hell out > of me, but now it saves me time, a lot of time, and makes things easier to > understand. > > two ways of interacting, the documented way, control, options, shift, down > arrow, and the reverse to stop interacting, control, options, shift, up arrow. > > or if you're using quicknav, simply using one hand, which is the supreme > benefit of quicknav, press the right and down arrow together to interact, and > left and down to stop. > > > Regards, > > Neil Barnfather > > Talks List Administrator > Twitter @neilbarnfather > > TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your > accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com > > URL: - www.talknav.com > e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com > Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 > > > > On 8 Jun 2011, at 20:18, Shannon Dyer wrote: > > I fought the signature battle yesterday. Finally, I won. > > So, open mail. Then, go to the menu bar and find preferences. You'll see a > series of buttons, one of which is labeled signatures. Enable that one. > > Here's where it got tricky for me. You'll see a table. You have to control > option shift down-arrow to interact with it. When I did this, I saw something > that said GMail, and, since that's what I use, I left the table alone, now > that it was highlighted. Then, I tabbed over to a box that said signature 1. > At first, I thought that was where the signature went, but no. That seems to > just be the name of the signature. I tabbed again, and was in an edit box. I > wrote the signature. The next part, I couldn't get voiceover to do, so a > friend clicked on the plus sign for me. Apparently, this says that this is > the signature I wanted to use. Then, I checked the box that said "include > signature above quoted text". After that, I was done. > > Hopefully, this helps a bit. > > Shannon > Are you a fan of women's music? If so, join me each Thursday from noon until > three for the Eclectic Collection: a Celebration of Women In Music. Point > your media player to: > http://mojoradio.us/listen > or > www.mintfm.net > > On Jun 8, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Kliph&Sharrie wrote: > >> Okay, I have a few questions that I haven't seen in the last few months. >> How do you put things on your desc top? And how do you move a folder from >> one place to the next? Like what command is like the applications key in >> windows, or alt key, these keys gave us the options to copy move or send >> things to certain areas. Lastly, what's the tricks to creating a signature >> in apple mail? Thanks from a new user. On Jun 8, 2011, at 12:50 PM, >> Kimberly wrote: >> >>> This is truly an incredibly helpful post. >>> >>> I've had my Mac for several months but haven't made the switch from Jaws and >>> the pc because I find the command structure and especially web navigation >>> totally not intuitive. But these two suggestions have made me want to give >>> it another try. >>> >>> Kim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of Shannon Dyer >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 1:16 PM >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: transition from pc to mac >>> >>> >>> This was a marvelously helpful message. I read nothing about either of these >>> features in the voiceover quickstart, and no one has suggested them. Thank >>> you so, so much for making me aware of them. I think this will make the Mac >>> and I better friends in a much more timely manner. (Smile) >>> >>> Shannon >>> Are you a fan of women's music? If so, join me each Thursday from noon until >>> three for the Eclectic Collection: a Celebration of Women In Music. Point >>> your media player to: >>> http://mojoradio.us/listen >>> or >>> www.mintfm.net >>> >>> On Jun 8, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote: >>> >>>> Joanne, >>>> >>>> for me the podcasts etc do help, but by far the biggest thing that very >>> few people seem to throw up as the most obviously easy way into Mac usage is >>> to use QuickNav. >>>> >>>> let me explain, there are a number of ways to use a Mac, unlike with a PC, >>> where you can really only use the qwerty keyboard. >>>> >>>> A Mac has different commanders as they are referred to, these are ways of >>> inputting commands or actions to Voice Over to make a desired thing happen, >>> be it navigation or more. >>>> >>>> you can use your keyboard, with the Voice Over keys, control and options, >>> with a range of additional keys to activate various commands. You can use >>> the number pad if your keyboard has one to also do the same, if you have a >>> track pad you can use that to gesture like you can on an iPHone, iPod Touch >>> or iPad. >>>> >>>> but the big one for me that is often overlooked is Quick Nav, quick nav >>> uses the four arrow keys to enable you to quickly navigate around everything >>> from finder Windows, to apps, to text edit areas to the internet etc. >>>> >>>> firstly you need to know that in certain cases you have to turn quick nav >>> off and indeed back on again. you enable / disable quick nav using the left >>> and right arrow keys pressed once at the same time. quite literally left and >>> right arrow keys press once together. >>>> >>>> you'll hear Voice Over say, Quick Nav on or off. >>>> >>>> once its on, you can use individual presses of the right / left arrow to >>> move the Voice Over cursor from item to item on the screen... >>>> >>>> inserted little note here, you need to also understand that whilst PC's >>> screen readers use up and down arrows to move you about, the Mac uses left / >>> right, and thinking about this, it does make sense, as this is how sighted >>> folk read. >>>> >>>> so the left / right keys will move item by item, be it a chunk of text on >>> the internet, or icons on a desktop etc. >>>> >>>> the up / down arrow keys again individually pressed will cycle through the >>> elements of the item that you are interacting with based on the rotor >>> setting, the rotor is a dial or rotory styled switch which adjusts the >>> method of moving through elements in a given thing. >>>> >>>> let me explain, a web-site is made up of headings, links, visited links, >>> fields, form fields, tables etc. so when you're in Safari the rotor may >>> have, and you can customise this, headings, tables, links, words and >>> characters within the rotor. if you want to quickly move between the >>> headings on a web page you should make sure that the rotor is set to >>> headings, you cchange the roter setting by pressing together the up and left >>> arrow keys, or the up and right arrow keys. >>>> >>>> once you're on heading, use the up / down arrow key indivually to jump >>> between headings since this is what your roter is now set to. >>>> >>>> say you find the heading you are looking for, you can now right arrow >>> through the content, imagine though you find a word that Voice Over doesn't >>> quite read right, and you think, what did it say? change the roter to word, >>> using the up and right or up and left arrows together, now down press until >>> yu are one word ahead of the word you wish to have spelt, now change the >>> roter to charicter, press down arrow and the cursor will move charicter by >>> charicter. >>>> >>>> once done simply change the roter bakc to heading or whatever you wish. >>>> >>>> this is just one example of how the roter works. >>>> >>>> another amazing thing which gets little press is the Item Chooser, which >>> by pressing control, options, I, will bring up a list of every single item >>> on any page you are on, be it a finder window or safari window etc. >>>> >>>> this has to be one of my favourite features of Voice Over. >>>> >>>> with this snazy feature you now have a list of every componant on the >>> screen, say you are on Amazon, and you've got an item up in front of you, >>> you want to find the add to basket button, but can't. >>>> >>>> press control, options, I, and then type basket, or b, a, s and leave it >>> at that... the list of items reduces based on the available options with >>> your letter combination. this is fantastic for finding things you are having >>> trouble with, or where for example you don't quite know if the item is, add >>> to basket, put in basket, add to cart, etc.... as you can try a few words >>> until you find what you want. you don't need to do it in any given order, so >>> even if the link reads add this dam item to my cart, you could type dam, and >>> the list will reduce to any option with dam in it. >>>> >>>> Quick Nav and the Item Chooser have to be my two main features of Voice >>> Over and this is how I have successfully last October made the switch to Mac >>> from being a JAWS PC user for 12 years before that. >>>> >>>> hope that this has helped. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Neil Barnfather >>>> >>>> Talks List Administrator >>>> Twitter @neilbarnfather >>>> >>>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your >>>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com >>>> >>>> URL: - www.talknav.com >>>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com >>>> Phone: - +44 844 999 4199 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 13:58, Joanne Chua wrote: >>>> >>>> hi there, >>>> >>>> i'm Joanne, from Australia whom currently on total transit from PC to >>>> Mac. however, i found that the commands and learning the back takes me >>>> too long, and i'm not really sure where to start. >>>> it sounds stupid i know but, may i ask, is there any tips or ways for >>>> me to fast track my learning curves with using voice over? >>>> >>>> any suggestion is deeply appreciated. >>>> >>>> many thanks >>>> >>>> Joanne :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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