If you haven't already done so, you might check out my pod casts on blindcooltech for my voiceover experiences. On Feb 3, 2011, at 12:44 AM, brandt wrote:
> Hi Tim, > > As a current windows user, I have to say that negative podcasts such as > "Voiceover on" will keep the windows users, windows users and drive newby mac > users away. I am still going to swich, but almost decided not to after > listening to the first 6 episodes of "voiceover is broaken" > > Regards, > > Brandt Steenkamp > > MSN/Windows live: brandt...@live.com > > Google talk: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com > > AIM: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com > > Skype: brandt.steenkamp007 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Kilburn" <kilbu...@shaw.ca> > To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: iWOrk: VoiceOver Falls Short > > > Hi Kevin, > > I spent some time listening to your suggested podcast and am a little annoyed > with your approach and attitude presented within it. While your comments > below suggest a welcomeness to constructive comments and/or workarounds, your > tone within the podcast itself is very critical of VO. Much of this > criticism, in my opinion, is due to a lack of experience with the product > itself. You and your partner appear well versed in the use of JAWS and are > using that wealth of experience to attempt a comparison with a product that > you do not have the same familiarity with. Therefore, your conclusions seem > rather tilted. > > Now, I do appreciate your efforts in providing the podcast episodes, as such > comparisons are useful. Simply to eliminate the judgemental comments would > make them more palatable from my prospective. As I've noticed from much of > the suggestions supplied by Anne Robertson, much of what you criticized with > respect to VO is actually doable. I might also add, that many of these are > not necessarily "workarounds", but really just a different way of approaching > things. For the most part, we all have to realize that VO and the MacOS is > not Windows, nor do I want it to be, so if we must do things a little > differently, then so be it. > > Now for some specifics: > > • In Numbers, you made fun of Numbers saying "B4" with the word "Cell" and > quipped about not needing to hear the word "Cell" since you knew that you > were in a spreadsheet. You also mentioned that there was no way that you > could stop it from saying the word "Cell". In this case, you are inaccurate, > simply set your default verbosity to "Low" and VO will not say the word > "Cell" anymore. > > I will readily admit that JAWS handles MS products very well and I'm not > trying to say that VO handles iWork just as well, my objections are with your > perceived expertise with VO during the comparison and your over-critical > tone. Your obvious comfort level with JAWS allows for the ease of use > whereas that same level of comfort is not apparent for VO. These > inconsistencies are brought home considerably when I read the > comments/suggestions from Anne. > > Maybe, instead of making such judgements, you could preface your comments > with phrases like, "In my experience with VO thus far", or " I haven't > figured out how to do whatever yet, but there may be someone who's more > familiar than me with it". I feel that this would give your podcast a more > professional tone and consequently, add validity to it. In it's current > state, I would not be inclined to listen to further episodes. > > Just my thoughts. > > Later... > > On 2011-01-31, at 3:58 PM, Kevin Chao wrote: > >> Please have a listen to latest, episode 6 of VOiceOVer On podcast, where >> APple iWork and Microsoft Office screen reader accessibility are compared. >> http://VoiceOverOn.podbean.com >> >> If any are aware of work-arounds, -, solutions or any feedback , >> specifically on content; please provide it with very specific steps. >> >> Apple Accessibility are made aware of all these issues, both text and audio >> form, which they are more than fine with the podcast. >> >> Goal of VOiceOver On podcast is to highlight the good, bad and ugly of >> VoiceOver. THis allows for people to be aware. More importantly, for APple >> to be aware of issues in a variety of formats, which will allow for these >> issues to be addressed at a later point. >> >> Kevin >> , >> On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:16 PM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: >> >>> You know, I'm not exactly the biggest apple fan on here, but if those >>> are all the bugs that are present in iWork, I have to say thats pretty >>> impressive. I can't right now, but I'm sure that if I had time, I >>> could come up with many more bugs that one could find using a windows >>> screenreader and office. >>> I'm all for talking about a products weeknesses, but it seems like >>> your podcast exists purely to expose the bad points about voiceover, >>> despite its name. >>> >>> On 31/01/2011, Ray Foret Jr <rfore...@att.net> wrote: >>>> And your point is? >>>> >>>> I assume you've contacted the Apple accessibility people about this? >>>> >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!! >>>> >>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!! >>>> >>>> Skype Name: >>>> barefootedray >>>> >>>> On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>> >>>>> Below are various aspects of iWork, when it comes to content >>>>> browsing/viewing, where VoiceOver falls short. >>>>> >>>>> Pages >>>>> * VoiceOver find doesn't ' always work, which requires arrowing around >>>>> document and repeating find. >>>>> * Going from end of page to next page, a sound indicates page turn; >>>>> VoiceOver is silent and doesn't read first line of following page. >>>>> >>>>> Numbers >>>>> * Navigating around, Voiceover will double/triple speak cell >>>>> coordinates, speak word "cell" and order in which info is read isn't >>>>> consistent. >>>>> >>>>> KeyNote >>>>> * Slide show view, interact with table, VoiceOver doesn't see slide >>>>> content. Doesn't matter if it's a KeyNote document or PowerPoint 2003. >>>>> >>>>> Kevin >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > Tim Kilburn > Fort McMurray, AB Canada > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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