Hi Tim,
As a current windows user, I have to say that negative podcasts such as
"Voiceover on" will keep the windows users, windows users and drive newby
mac users away. I am still going to swich, but almost decided not to after
listening to the first 6 episodes of "voiceover is broaken"
Regards,
Brandt Steenkamp
MSN/Windows live: brandt...@live.com
Google talk: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com
AIM: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com
Skype: brandt.steenkamp007
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Kilburn" <kilbu...@shaw.ca>
To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: iWOrk: VoiceOver Falls Short
Hi Kevin,
I spent some time listening to your suggested podcast and am a little
annoyed with your approach and attitude presented within it. While your
comments below suggest a welcomeness to constructive comments and/or
workarounds, your tone within the podcast itself is very critical of VO.
Much of this criticism, in my opinion, is due to a lack of experience with
the product itself. You and your partner appear well versed in the use of
JAWS and are using that wealth of experience to attempt a comparison with a
product that you do not have the same familiarity with. Therefore, your
conclusions seem rather tilted.
Now, I do appreciate your efforts in providing the podcast episodes, as such
comparisons are useful. Simply to eliminate the judgemental comments would
make them more palatable from my prospective. As I've noticed from much of
the suggestions supplied by Anne Robertson, much of what you criticized with
respect to VO is actually doable. I might also add, that many of these are
not necessarily "workarounds", but really just a different way of
approaching things. For the most part, we all have to realize that VO and
the MacOS is not Windows, nor do I want it to be, so if we must do things a
little differently, then so be it.
Now for some specifics:
• In Numbers, you made fun of Numbers saying "B4" with the word "Cell" and
quipped about not needing to hear the word "Cell" since you knew that you
were in a spreadsheet. You also mentioned that there was no way that you
could stop it from saying the word "Cell". In this case, you are
inaccurate, simply set your default verbosity to "Low" and VO will not say
the word "Cell" anymore.
I will readily admit that JAWS handles MS products very well and I'm not
trying to say that VO handles iWork just as well, my objections are with
your perceived expertise with VO during the comparison and your
over-critical tone. Your obvious comfort level with JAWS allows for the
ease of use whereas that same level of comfort is not apparent for VO.
These inconsistencies are brought home considerably when I read the
comments/suggestions from Anne.
Maybe, instead of making such judgements, you could preface your comments
with phrases like, "In my experience with VO thus far", or " I haven't
figured out how to do whatever yet, but there may be someone who's more
familiar than me with it". I feel that this would give your podcast a more
professional tone and consequently, add validity to it. In it's current
state, I would not be inclined to listen to further episodes.
Just my thoughts.
Later...
On 2011-01-31, at 3:58 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Please have a listen to latest, episode 6 of VOiceOVer On podcast, where
APple iWork and Microsoft Office screen reader accessibility are
compared.
http://VoiceOverOn.podbean.com
If any are aware of work-arounds, -, solutions or any feedback ,
specifically on content; please provide it with very specific steps.
Apple Accessibility are made aware of all these issues, both text and
audio form, which they are more than fine with the podcast.
Goal of VOiceOver On podcast is to highlight the good, bad and ugly of
VoiceOver. THis allows for people to be aware. More importantly, for APple
to be aware of issues in a variety of formats, which will allow for these
issues to be addressed at a later point.
Kevin
,
On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:16 PM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote:
You know, I'm not exactly the biggest apple fan on here, but if those
are all the bugs that are present in iWork, I have to say thats pretty
impressive. I can't right now, but I'm sure that if I had time, I
could come up with many more bugs that one could find using a windows
screenreader and office.
I'm all for talking about a products weeknesses, but it seems like
your podcast exists purely to expose the bad points about voiceover,
despite its name.
On 31/01/2011, Ray Foret Jr <rfore...@att.net> wrote:
And your point is?
I assume you've contacted the Apple accessibility people about this?
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
Skype Name:
barefootedray
On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
Below are various aspects of iWork, when it comes to content
browsing/viewing, where VoiceOver falls short.
Pages
* VoiceOver find doesn't ' always work, which requires arrowing around
document and repeating find.
* Going from end of page to next page, a sound indicates page turn;
VoiceOver is silent and doesn't read first line of following page.
Numbers
* Navigating around, Voiceover will double/triple speak cell
coordinates, speak word "cell" and order in which info is read isn't
consistent.
KeyNote
* Slide show view, interact with table, VoiceOver doesn't see slide
content. Doesn't matter if it's a KeyNote document or PowerPoint 2003.
Kevin
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Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
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