I too have noticed a rather gleefully sarcastic tone in a few different podcasts out there when windows users are trying to compare Voiceover to Jaws. Some writers are even malicious. I'm not saying that criticism isn't warranted or worthwhile, but it should be constructive. Apple is the first main stream company who actually wants us to experience their OS in the same way as sighted people. I can't honestly tell sometimes if the snarky critics are afraid of change or if they just enjoy paying $1000 in blind taxes just so they can use a computer the same as a sighted person, (or having the state pay for them to do so.) Rather than snark, why not offer helpful suggestions or things they'd like to see improved rather than snarking at voiceover. If any of those windows users are reading this, I want you all to understand something. I was an avid windows user. I switched to the Mac a year ago. For a long time, I used fusion every day to access things in windows I didn't yet know how to do. Today, I only ever access fusion maybe once every couple of months to pop onto a game server I used to frequent. Your snarky assertions aside, voiceover serves my needs perfectly. Further, I would never want to go back to windows. Snow Leopard and IOS4.2 has freed me far more than Jaws ever did. Access to technology and the things that occur in our daily lives is a civil right, my friends, not a privilege. It's worth remembering. Friendly, Chris
. On Feb 2, 2011, at 11:44 PM, brandt wrote: > Hi Tim, > > As a current windows user, I have to say that negative podcasts such as > "Voiceover on" will keep the windows users, windows users and drive newby mac > users away. I am still going to swich, but almost decided not to after > listening to the first 6 episodes of "voiceover is broaken" > > Regards, > > Brandt Steenkamp > > MSN/Windows live: brandt...@live.com > > Google talk: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com > > AIM: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com > > Skype: brandt.steenkamp007 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Kilburn" <kilbu...@shaw.ca> > To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: iWOrk: VoiceOver Falls Short > > > Hi Kevin, > > I spent some time listening to your suggested podcast and am a little annoyed > with your approach and attitude presented within it. While your comments > below suggest a welcomeness to constructive comments and/or workarounds, your > tone within the podcast itself is very critical of VO. Much of this > criticism, in my opinion, is due to a lack of experience with the product > itself. You and your partner appear well versed in the use of JAWS and are > using that wealth of experience to attempt a comparison with a product that > you do not have the same familiarity with. Therefore, your conclusions seem > rather tilted. > > Now, I do appreciate your efforts in providing the podcast episodes, as such > comparisons are useful. Simply to eliminate the judgemental comments would > make them more palatable from my prospective. As I've noticed from much of > the suggestions supplied by Anne Robertson, much of what you criticized with > respect to VO is actually doable. I might also add, that many of these are > not necessarily "workarounds", but really just a different way of approaching > things. For the most part, we all have to realize that VO and the MacOS is > not Windows, nor do I want it to be, so if we must do things a little > differently, then so be it. > > Now for some specifics: > > • In Numbers, you made fun of Numbers saying "B4" with the word "Cell" and > quipped about not needing to hear the word "Cell" since you knew that you > were in a spreadsheet. You also mentioned that there was no way that you > could stop it from saying the word "Cell". In this case, you are inaccurate, > simply set your default verbosity to "Low" and VO will not say the word > "Cell" anymore. > > I will readily admit that JAWS handles MS products very well and I'm not > trying to say that VO handles iWork just as well, my objections are with your > perceived expertise with VO during the comparison and your over-critical > tone. Your obvious comfort level with JAWS allows for the ease of use > whereas that same level of comfort is not apparent for VO. These > inconsistencies are brought home considerably when I read the > comments/suggestions from Anne. > > Maybe, instead of making such judgements, you could preface your comments > with phrases like, "In my experience with VO thus far", or " I haven't > figured out how to do whatever yet, but there may be someone who's more > familiar than me with it". I feel that this would give your podcast a more > professional tone and consequently, add validity to it. In it's current > state, I would not be inclined to listen to further episodes. > > Just my thoughts. > > Later... > > On 2011-01-31, at 3:58 PM, Kevin Chao wrote: > >> Please have a listen to latest, episode 6 of VOiceOVer On podcast, where >> APple iWork and Microsoft Office screen reader accessibility are compared. >> http://VoiceOverOn.podbean.com >> >> If any are aware of work-arounds, -, solutions or any feedback , >> specifically on content; please provide it with very specific steps. >> >> Apple Accessibility are made aware of all these issues, both text and audio >> form, which they are more than fine with the podcast. >> >> Goal of VOiceOver On podcast is to highlight the good, bad and ugly of >> VoiceOver. THis allows for people to be aware. More importantly, for APple >> to be aware of issues in a variety of formats, which will allow for these >> issues to be addressed at a later point. >> >> Kevin >> , >> On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:16 PM, Ben Mustill-Rose wrote: >> >>> You know, I'm not exactly the biggest apple fan on here, but if those >>> are all the bugs that are present in iWork, I have to say thats pretty >>> impressive. I can't right now, but I'm sure that if I had time, I >>> could come up with many more bugs that one could find using a windows >>> screenreader and office. >>> I'm all for talking about a products weeknesses, but it seems like >>> your podcast exists purely to expose the bad points about voiceover, >>> despite its name. >>> >>> On 31/01/2011, Ray Foret Jr <rfore...@att.net> wrote: >>>> And your point is? >>>> >>>> I assume you've contacted the Apple accessibility people about this? >>>> >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!! >>>> >>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!! >>>> >>>> Skype Name: >>>> barefootedray >>>> >>>> On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Kevin Chao wrote: >>>> >>>>> Below are various aspects of iWork, when it comes to content >>>>> browsing/viewing, where VoiceOver falls short. >>>>> >>>>> Pages >>>>> * VoiceOver find doesn't ' always work, which requires arrowing around >>>>> document and repeating find. >>>>> * Going from end of page to next page, a sound indicates page turn; >>>>> VoiceOver is silent and doesn't read first line of following page. >>>>> >>>>> Numbers >>>>> * Navigating around, Voiceover will double/triple speak cell >>>>> coordinates, speak word "cell" and order in which info is read isn't >>>>> consistent. >>>>> >>>>> KeyNote >>>>> * Slide show view, interact with table, VoiceOver doesn't see slide >>>>> content. Doesn't matter if it's a KeyNote document or PowerPoint 2003. >>>>> >>>>> Kevin >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > Tim Kilburn > Fort McMurray, AB Canada > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
