Pete, It was my reply which I felt might have generalized a bit too much. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I agree that application developers are rightly responsible for conforming to accessibility guidelines. My issues exist in things like not being able to resize a window or drag a file, and the the (sometimes extreme) focus jumping which occurs. I don't recall those kinds of issues using ZoomText. Having said that, I too feel Apple has brought a good deal of fun back to technology. By and large their solutions are as elegant as the UI that sits on top.
On the issue of Cocoa, there is certainly a push to move developers that way. Though the Carbon frameworks still exist, 64-bit, Grand Central, and the like will necessitate a move to Cocoa. On Feb 14, 2010, at 4:12 AM, James & Nash wrote: > Hi Pete, > On 14 Feb 2010, at 05:20, Pete Nalda wrote: >> ...it's the developers duty to program within the Cocoa framework so that >> everything becomes accessible by VO *and* Zoom... > > I thought that all the developers had to program in CoCo now as Mac OS X is > 100% CoCo. > > Thanks > TC > James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny >> I don't think it's going too far off topic, maybe a little since I'm >> speaking of Zoom, but we're still talking about word processors. While I >> agree that Apple should take steps to make zoom work properly with pages, I >> think other with other programs, it's the developers duty to program within >> the Cocoa framework so that everything becomes accessible by VO *and* Zoom >> Users. I also agree that having both Zoom and VO working together is *Very* >> competitive to a Zootext/screenreader package on windows. Apple has done a >> great deal to make Zoom one of the best full screen magnifiers available, >> and as I sit here typing this email effortlessly with zoom, I think about >> all the other productivity I get done on my machine and am grateful for >> that. We get access, and the luxury of using probably the Best UI in the >> world (ok I know I sound like a fanboy here, but I just never had much *fun* >> with windows or linux). That said, here's to hoping for further advances, >> and yes I'll surely do my part whenever possible. >> >> >> On Feb 13, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mueller, Matt wrote: >> >>> I've experienced the same issue in Pages and in Bean as well, though I have >>> used both with VO successfully. Sadly, many such issues exist in zoom, most >>> of them very basic to its use. Although I've reported these, I've seen no >>> change in its performance since Tiger. To my thinking, the Zoom/VoiceOver >>> combination has great potential for the ZoomText and MAGic audiences, but >>> the commitment isn't there. I would urge you and any others who have an >>> interest in seeing that potential realized to report issues and make sure >>> Apple gets the message. I'll get off of this soapbox now and refrain from >>> pulling this thread way OT. >>> >>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Pete Nalda wrote: >>> >>>> Will do! I'll be curious to see how that works with VO as well, as I use >>>> a combination of both at a lot of times. Thanks for the tip! >>>> >>>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 2:13 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can also check out a free word processor called Bean. Its allot more >>>>> than simple. >>>>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Pete Nalda wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This isn't really VO related, but, is accessibility related, but not too >>>>>> long ago, I was in the Apple store and was trying out Pages on a machine >>>>>> there, using Zoom, and much to my disappointment, didn't allow for >>>>>> cursor tracking with Zoom. I thought, well, so much for advanced word >>>>>> processing or desktop publishing, If I wanted that I'd have to migrate >>>>>> back to Windows, Word, and ZoomText, or just do simple word processing >>>>>> with Textedit. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 10:17 AM, VaShaun Jones wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I feel this is a great idea. It is time for us to speak out as a whole >>>>>>> on the I Work accessibility issues especially with the I Pad having I >>>>>>> Work support. >>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:26 PM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And I would point out that any concerns should be directed to Apple. >>>>>>>> THe more folks have to say about these issues, the more likely they >>>>>>>> get addressed sooner than later. I have been sending feedback to >>>>>>>> accessibil...@apple.com and via support as well. >>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Both comments and styles work fine with vo and pages. There are a >>>>>>>>> few hang-ups however. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Vo can't see bullets or numbers in auto bulleted or numbered >>>>>>>>> lists. >>>>>>>>> 2. You can't use vo to read or do any operations on in-line objects: >>>>>>>>> objects embedded in the document. That being said however, you can >>>>>>>>> read and use objects to a large degree if the are floating. In the >>>>>>>>> later case, they are in the lay-out area. There ways to make an >>>>>>>>> in-line object floating and there are indications that an object is >>>>>>>>> present in a document because vo will say "hi-lited" hen you move the >>>>>>>>> insertion point of it. >>>>>>>>> 3. Templates seem totally unusable to me. Someone else might have a >>>>>>>>> better handle on that but there seems to be things like text boxes >>>>>>>>> with in-line text boxes. So it's not a nice situation for vo. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As it stands, I think that document creation using vo is very doable. >>>>>>>>> Due to the problems I mentioned however, I think that collaborative >>>>>>>>> writing projects, or any situation where you will have to read a >>>>>>>>> document that someone else did using Word, will be problematic. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:21 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Listers, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before >>>>>>>>>> doing so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) >>>>>> Pete Nalda >>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda >>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) >>>> Pete Nalda >>>> http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda >>>> http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) >> Pete Nalda >> http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda >> http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
