Hi Esther:
Thank you again and again. Actually, the MacBook Pro has snowleopard, and
there is a 73 page PDF user guide that I was referring to. Maybe you should
write a book, or I should win the lotto so I could
fly you into Denver to beat this stuff into me somehow.:)
In any case thank you. I'll be exploring with Alex again tomorrow.<grin>
Take care.
Carolyn----- Original Message -----
From: Esther
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible PDF viewer, was weird pdf document.
Hi Carolyn,
The behavior of Preview under VoiceOver is closely tied to the version of Mac
OS X that you are running, so because I am not running Snow Leopard, and also
because some of the details of behavior can depend on both your application
settings and your VoiceOver preference settings (especially cursor tracking
and, under Snow Leopard, whether you're using QuickNav), I haven't tried to
post instructions about using this app.
However, here are a few suggestions you can try:
1. Check what PDF Display mode is being used under your View Menu. (VO-M to the
menu bar, press "V" to go to the View menu, arrow down to "PDF Display", then
right arrow to the PDF Display submenu option settings. Are you using "Single
Page" or "Single Page Continuous"? There can be reasons for using one or the
other, depending on the source of your document, but for Apple User guides I'll
usually use "Single Page Continuous" if I want to read straight through without
having to use a key stroke to move to the next page. This is true for both
Preview and Skim, but only if you interact with the text page (VO-Shift-Down
arrow), and use VO-A to start and resume your reading. I can't stress this
enough. Interacting is not instinctive when you come over from Windows. The
deceptive point here is that VoiceOver will start reading even if you don't
take the time to interact once you're in the text area. Under Tiger (OS X
10.4), if I use Travis Siegel's Softcon PDF Viewer (since there's no "Single
Page Continuous" option under Preview with Tiger), you can read books with
VoiceOver and only discover, a hundred or more pages into the PDF file, that
because you forgot to interact when you started reading your position in the
document is lost when you stop/pause.
2. Crucial points: if you first interact with the text area of Preview or Skim
when reading your PDF document, you can move around with your VO-arrow keys
(e.g., VO-Up arrow to re-read a previous line, VO-Left or Right arrow to review
words, VO-Down arrow to skip down several lines on the page), and then resume
reading from the current location with VO-A.
In Skim, I can execute a "Find" with Command-F (either first stopping VoiceOver
reading by pressing the Control key, or not), and use VO-A to resume reading at
the next found location, etc. I can even command-tab away from the application
and return to the place I left off reading if I press VO-A again. (In Preview
there's a bug under Leopard that requires you to set a hot spot to get back to
the place you left off if you switch applications. I think you also had to do
this for Skim in earlier versions of Leopard. You need to ignore what VoiceOver
starts reading and use VO-A to resume your location in Skim. This works for
Mac OS X 10.5.8 and above in Leopard, I think, but don't quote me on this. And
I'm sure I don't have the latest version of Skim.)
3. You might find it easier to hide the Preview toolbar. This shouldn't affect
performance either way -- but you might find it simpler to navigate between the
sidebar, where you are presumably reading a Table of Contents and selecting a
section in the Apple User's Manual, and the text area, if the toolbar is hidden.
I'm not sure how useful these comments will be to you under Snow Leopard.
Another difficulty is that I used to be able to use the "VoiceOver Getting
Started Guide" as an example PDF document for illustration purposes. Since
there is no corresponding Snow Leopard PDF guide that I can point people to, it
gets more difficult to give examples based on an actual guide.
HTH
Cheers,
Esther
On February 11, 2010, Carolyn wrote:
>James: Re using preview: I can get to a "next page" button, but it continues
>to say, "next page Button Press Next page button." This is one thing that
>really is getting me frustrated about my Mac learning----stuff that simply
>doesn't seem to work. The Electronic beast continues to outsmart me!:)
Carolyn
----- Original Message -----
From: James & Nash
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Accessible PDF viewer, was weird pdf document.
Hi Carolyn
On 11 Feb 2010, at 19:43, Carolyn wrote:
I'm looking at a "user guide" in a pdf file, on the MacBook Pro. I can't
seem to get beyond the first page, or copyright info. I assume this is because
I'm using previewer. Would I get further using the Skim program you mentioned
here?
Try pressing page down. That should move you to the next page.
TC
James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
James:
I'm looking at a "user guide" in a pdf file, on the MacBook Pro. I can't
seem to get beyond the first page, or copyright info. I assume this is because
I'm using previewer. Would I get further using the Skim program you mentioned
here?
TIA
Carolyn CH:)
----- Original Message -----
From: James & Nash
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: Accessible PDF viewer, was weird pdf document.
Hi,
Other than Preview is there a PDF viewer / reader application that is
accessible with VoiceOver?
Yes there is, it is called Skim and you can get it from SourceForge or:
http://www.opensourcemac.org
TC
James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny
On 11 Feb 2010, at 12:27, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
Good morning,
Other than Preview is there a PDF viewer / reader application that is
accessible with VoiceOver?
Thanks,
Everett
Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt
View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
On 2010-02-11, at 7:23 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
The PDF author did not use the appropriate table tags in your
problem document. You may be able to do a "select all" and copy and paste the
table into a word processor or spreadsheet which may be able to sort out the
broken table for you. Otherwise, you are SOL - Viva Adobe!
On Feb 10, 2010, at 10:43 AM, erik burggraaf wrote:
Hi Guys,
I've got a list of contacts here in PDF format. It's a sort'a
table with name, address, phone number and so on. So, no matter how I view
this table in prevuew, it always gives me all the names first. After that it
gives me all the addresses. Then it gives me all the phone numbers. I've
tried going up and down, left and right, with and without quick nav, and the
order is always the same no matter what. I'm sure it doesn't look this way on
the screen. It's got to be information across the columns and contacts up and
down the rows like a deacent table, but I can't get it to read that way using
preview with voiceover.
Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
erik burggraaf
A+ certified technician and user support consultant.
Phone: 888-255-5194
Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
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