Hi Chris, Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly couldn't stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow Leopard came out at the end of August, it changed the game for me. The rotor function along with the web spots really help things to move a long for me as far as navigating the web. Even the navigation with the arrows... when it decides to work) has made Safari on the Mac with voiceover a more enjoyable experience. It all depends on the situation too. I like using the internet on my Mac when working with sighted people. it is just a more seamless transition in my opinion especially if one has a track pad. But if I just want to gobble up a large chunk of info really quick I still think jaws and windows has an advantage. . On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote:
> Hi, > > I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is now > the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of the work > we did as we certainly moved the art forward. > > Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried to > emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation application > with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in the sense that > the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of the contextual > information a sighted user would have resulting from the juxtaposition of > objects in the page's layout. > > I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A > relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function in a > straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as one can > move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning where objects > are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can learn to navigate > some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in between items of value. > > The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a > MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me about > a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow Leopard that you > can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in action. > > So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, the > item chooser and learn the keystrokes that make web browsing easier and I > think you will start to enjoy it more. > > Of course, JAWS introduced the original virtual buffer system for web > browsing back in 1998 and has a lot of time for refinements. It is good but, > especially regarding contextual information, is starting to fall behind newer > and more forward looking ideas popping up around the AT world. > > cdh > On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the web >> browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par with >> that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look at the steps you >> explained to highlight and copy text "If you interact with text, use >> VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of text and use VO-cursor keys to >> navigate and mark that text, then use VO-shift-return to stop marking the >> text. FInally command-c will copy that text for you to paste where you >> choose. You can also interact with text and use command-a to highlight all >> text you can then copy..." On I.E. you would just use shift and the arrows >> or some function of navigation commonly used throughout the Operating >> system. In Snow Leopard one should be able to use the arrows by them selves >> to navigate a web page and with shift to select. This is not the case most >> of the time. The folks didn't include this functionality into snow leopard >> by accident or just to appease windows converts in my opinion. They >> realized that the previous method was just a pain, not to mention labor >> intensive in regards to the task actually trying to be accomplished. I use >> Dom mode and sometimes voiceover indeed skips over chunks of information. I >> am not saying that Safari with Voiceover isn't serviceable but, by no means >> in my opinion is it as dependable as I.E. with Jaws. And this is coming >> from someone who Uses their Mac as their primary computer. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:48 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >> >>> I think you need to take some additional time to learn how best to use >>> Safari with VOiceOver. I've been using the Mac for five years now and >>> although like any browser and screen reader, Safari and VO has issues, but >>> certainly not to the degree you seem to be having. Reading line by line is >>> no problem at all and copying information to the clipboard is again, no >>> problem. There is lots of information on how to accomplish both tasks and >>> perhaps a little research on your part will help. I'll give you a tip. If >>> you interact with text, use VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of >>> text and use VO-cursor keys to navigate and mark that text, then use >>> VO-shift-return to stop marking the text. FInally command-c will copy that >>> text for you to paste where you choose. You can also interact with text and >>> use command-a to highlight all text you can then copy. You coming from >>> windows and using IE may find DOM mode more like your browsing experience >>> under windows using a windows-based screen reader. If your using Groups >>> mode, you are going to find the navigation of the page not to be linear as >>> is provided by DOM mode. Groups mode gives a more accurate representation >>> of how the page is laid out unlike DOM mode. >>> Once you have used Safari a while, I think you will find it will meet your >>> needs just fine. I am not so sure that even if Firefox is made accessible, >>> you will find the browsing experience significantly different. I think >>> what you will find is some differences in browsing experience as far as how >>> some sites behave, but assuming Mozilla leverages the accessibility hooks >>> of VO, the navigation will likely be quite similar. >>> >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:59 AM, Lynn Schneider wrote: >>> >>>> Oh I would so love to have an alternative to Safari! I'm a fairly recent >>>> switcher and I don't miss Windows at all except that I totally and >>>> absolutely miss the great accessibility I had with IE. I hate the fact >>>> that I can't read line by line or copy web page text to the clipboard and >>>> he disturbing thing with VO and >>>> Safari is that I find that whole parts of pages are not read at all. I >>>> think Safari is the app I most dislike on the Mac. Everything else about >>>> the Mac is wonderful. >>>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>>> >>>>> Looking forward to trying out Firefox with VO working someday. FF has >>>>> really good ARIA support so it would be nice to have a browser on the Mac >>>>> that works well with this standard. Safari currently is weak. >>>>> >>>>> CB >>>>> >>>>> E.J. Zufelt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Good morning, >>>>>> >>>>>> This morning I posted a new blog article on my site: First Glance at >>>>>> Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard, which can be accessed at >>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/ygkfqoj >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks,Everett >>>>>> >>>>>> Follow me on Twitter >>>>>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt >>>>>> >>>>>> View my LinkedIn Profile >>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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