I think that part of the problem also is getting these agencies to realize how accessible OSX is now. this has been my personal experience. On Nov 29, 2009, at 6:47 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
> Chris, > > That is rediculous because funding isn't being just spent on "bombs" as you > say, but on every other possible and pointless program like bailouts of > banks, auto manufactures, and now the possibility of health care. Of course > lets try not to stray down the path of politics. I will agree that many of > these people have loss their jobs do to "other funding priorities", whatever > those may be for that state and the government. > Maybe it is a burden for some to purchase their own computers, but that is an > entirely separate issue from having choice. I agree that if someone is not > familiar with adaptive technology and has no idea what they need, it is more > difficult to support offering them something you can't support as an agency. > I do however believe that agencies should offer choice and be able to support > choice. Of course everything always ties directly back to funding, but I > would submit that a Mac would be less expensive. Well to be honest, this > thread probably has run its course and I think we agree on many points all be > it from a different point of view. :) > On Nov 29, 2009, at 8:10 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > >> This should be moved to the bs list... >> >> Getting government agencies or the non-profits with whom they contract to >> provide such services in the US is really a hard problem to solve in the >> current economic climate. >> >> First off, a lot of people in the consumer services side of these >> organizations have been laid off so we can buy bombs for use in Afghanistan >> and support the Israeli military machine. Thus, there are a lot fewer >> trainers out there than just a few years ago. >> >> Most, if not all of these trainers know JAWS and ZoomText very well and, in >> some of the wealthier areas, they know Window-Eyes and MAGic as well. These >> agencies and NGO have already invested a lot of money in training their >> trainers and are reticent to spend their scarce dollars on training for >> another system like Macintosh that is, in their minds, unproven. >> >> Some states require that these agencies provide consumers with a choice but >> accept that having JAWS and Window-Eyes is an actual choice. Those who, for >> one reason or another, select Window-Eyes will probably get substandard >> training as the JAWS juggernaut is nearly unbreakable. >> >> These programs are as "socialist" as those in Europe. In the US, we can buy >> a Macintosh with our own scratch which, for many, is a real burden and may >> not be possible. When you add that a local Lighthouse will help them get a >> decent Windows machine and give them JAWS at no cost to the consumer which >> will make choosing a Macintosh and paying out of pocket a lot less >> attractive. >> >> Until the funding improves again, the roadblocks of shrinking training >> dollars and a system that has virtually no one to actually evaluate the >> alternatives will remain broken. So much for private enterprise... >> >> cdh >> >> PS: Do not take my comments and think I am a socialist - I believe that >> government can do things where the market fails and proprietary access >> technology is sold in a vacuum that is almost entirely non-competitive means >> that private enterprise has failed and, in order to provide people with >> disabilities any chance of participating in the proverbial quest for the >> American Dream, the government needs to be involved. >> >> So, I believe that the free market usually functions very well but in >> certain areas it hasn't enough capital to lubricate the system so it has >> fallen into an FS monopoly. According to a recent study, JAWS has over 70% >> of the users and Window-Eyes (number 2 in the study) has about 11% with all >> others, including Mac, splitting up the rest. >> >> I can go on forever about the nasty business practices, litigation rather >> than innovation and other maneuvers that FS uses to increase its >> stranglehold on this market but I've said it so many times that I'm starting >> to bore myself. >> >> >> >> On Nov 28, 2009, at 11:28 PM, Jake wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott >>> Although I agree with you completely, I'd argue that this situation >>> exists in the US as well. Has anyone successfully gotten the >>> government to buy them a Mac? I've never heard of a case, and the >>> reasons given are similar and some are even open about dealing >>> exclusively with one company or another. Ours, too, is a socialist >>> program gone wrong. >>> I'm actually curious now, has anyone gotten a Mac from any sort of >>> government agency and if so, what country? >>> In either case, though, let one thing be clear. You always have >>> choices, and you've the power to make them. I got my Mac because I >>> purchased it. Yes, I had to save up for a bit to do it, but it was >>> well worth it. You always have that option no matter what your >>> government decides to provide for you. So a ban on blind people >>> getting a Mac does not exist. Maybe if enough exercise their power of >>> choice we might counter the FUD spread by these blind companies. Come >>> to think of it, that's the only way I can think to counter it. >>> The sad thing is that these types of lobbies are all too successful >>> when they crop up, because most people will listen to anything as long >>> as the person speaking it acts like they know what they're talking >>> about. Marketing hype, in other words, and it's a very good way to get >>> at those in governments who know absolutely nothing about blindness or >>> access technology of any kind. That's why we do need to exercise our >>> freedom of choice. No one knows what product is better for a person >>> than the person in that situation. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 28, 6:52 pm, Scott Howell <scottn3...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Well there ya go, a socialist program run totally amuck. If your going to >>>> get something for nothing, your going to be strapped with someone's idea >>>> of what you can and can't have. Yep, quite unfair, but obviously some >>>> screen reading developers are afraid of the Mac's ability. Well I'm sure >>>> my comments won't set well with some, but it is what it is and I'm glad I >>>> can make my own choices. >>>> On Nov 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, anouk radix wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, I got this message from a friend (Paul Erkens) who will join the >>>>> forum soon (his status is pending now). I am not really up to scratch >>>>> with the general regime in belgium of giving access technology to blind >>>>> people. I am just afraid that this will spread to the Netherlands. >>>>> Here I know htat high school and university students that are blind can >>>>> get a laptop, a screenreader and a braille display from the state. You >>>>> dont have to pay for anything in this scenario. In this case clearly >>>>> getting a mac with infovox voices and a braille display would be the >>>>> cheapest scenario but if the screenreader manufacturers start a lobby >>>>> here as well... >>>>> Once again I am not sure how it all works out in Belgium. >>>>> Greetings, Anouk >>>>> On Nov 29, 2009, at 2:07 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote: >>>> >>>>>> So what's the problem here? Does the government (or insurance) routinely >>>>>> buy computers for blind people, or just the screen reader? If the >>>>>> former, I can see why this is a problem, but if the latter, the good >>>>>> news is that any Mac comes with built-in access anyway, not requiring >>>>>> any extra access add-ons. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA >>>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY >>>> >>>>>> On Nov 28, 2009, at 7:50 PM, anouk radix wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> Hello, A friend of mine told me this morning htat in Belgium windows >>>>>>> screenreader companies have won a lobby that effectively bans blind >>>>>>> people in belgium from getting a mac from their insurance (or the >>>>>>> government). Because the screenreader people say it is unusable. >>>>>>> I think this is a very sad state of affairs indeed and I hope this wont >>>>>>> happen in other countries as well. >>>>>>> Greetings, Anouk >>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group >>>>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group >>>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group >>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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