Hi, I definitely share that opinion. I myself switched mainly because of the stability of the operating system, and the fact it had a built-in screen reader. I pretty much love VoiceOver now, and I'm grateful for Apple's obvious commitment to accessibility where different disabilities are concerned. They keep improving, adding new features and fixing bugs not just with the operating system, but also where VoiceOver is concerned. I'm constantly amazed with the fact that you can take out your newly purchased Mac, and have screen access immediately. Not just that, but you can reinstall it on your own without any assistance by use of your installation CD.
I'm sure other operating systems have at least integrated speech. Windows, for instance, has Narrator. While that definitely is not an ideal solution, it can at least be used to set up your Windows machine. But it is only for basic troubleshooting and setting up your computer. If you want more functionality as a blind user at least, you are forced to either pay for a third-party screen reading solution, or have an agency approve the purchase and fund the screen reading application. Many people on different communities, especially communities full of blind users say the price for a screen reader is too high. It ranges from at least eight hundred dollars to a thousand. There are free solutions for Windows such as NVDA, though I don't recall how advanced they are and how they perform depending on the user's needs. Yes, maybe the price is too high. Probably. Why should Windows users have to pay an extra sum of money just to get screen access software? This bothers me immensely. Accessibility, in my opinion, is a right and not a privilege gained by money. These are definitely other reasons for my transition. Apple does not seem to have pushed VoiceOver aside, and focussed on everything else and leaving VoiceOver behind. Quite the contrary. I've been in contact with a lot of Windows users ever since I got my Mac, and who hasn't? I asked someone a month ago what he thought of the Macintosh computers. He said they were, to quote, "unstable and preposterously hard to operate". I proceeded to ask him why. What didn't surprise me, was the fact he didn't actually know why he had that opinion. he just felt that way. I think it probably derives from being scared of trying out another operating system, or bad reviews like the review NFB did. I don't think anything has ever made me so shocked, not to mention angry due to the misinformation. Of course, there are the people who have tried the Mac seven years ago, didn't like it, and simply discarded it, never wanting to use it again regardless of the advance screen reader integrated that you don't have to buy. In general, I have definitely seen plenty of new Mac users pop out of the woods as of late, or saying "I want a Mac!". One thing that does worry me ever since Snowy came out, though, is that VoiceOver now can be controlled by Apple script. I'm not exactly sure what the extent of it is, since I'm not much into Apple Script myself. If Apple Script can enhance accessibility in an application, I guess it's alright. If it needs to be scripted to make it even remotely accessible, then we're going down the Windows path. I definitely have mixed opinion about the latter, since Mac practically, in my opinion, itself is accessible with most applications out of the box with no scripts required. One more thing, strictly concerning VoiceOver. In the VoiceOver utility, you have the verbosity category. In the Text tab, you can find a popup button named "When moving the cursor". You have two options. "Speak text the cursor passes", or "Speak text to the right of the cursor". I can see how this aids the transition of Windows to Mac users, but at the same time, VoiceOver is doing it the Windows way if changing the setting to "Speak tex to the right of the cursor". In my opinion, this feature should definitely not be present. If Windows users switch to the Mac, then they should learn how the Mac really does things without VoiceOver changing the experience to mirror Windows. This is my opinion, and while it might have strayed slightly off-topic I think it's quite appropriate now that we're actually discussing technology. Regards, Nic On Oct 3, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > My thoughts exactly. I think the people who read AT reviews fall > into two categories: people who work for AT companies/departments > and people already using AT who are not likely to switch but enjoy > keeping up with the technology conversations. > > Most purchasing decisions happen almost entirely apart from the > users of AT who rarely are even asked for input. > > An odd phenomena though, is the growth of VO and people who seem new > to computing or new to participating in discussions about such. > Whenever a new person joins any of the three Apple related lists to > which I subscribe, I make certain of taking notice of their name. > Some are people I've known for years from lots of different lists. > A whole lot, maybe even most, seem new to technology lists (I doubt > too many are entirely new to computing as finding a list, getting > signed up, etc. isn't obvious to the novice). > > I know that Apple stores are offering VO training because (I'm > guessing) the local Lighthouse or other agencies aren't serving the > Mac market. > > I'm working on a very large proposal for a really huge project that > includes a lot of questions about populations and numbers of users > on different AT with a variety of different disabilities. The only > information I can get about Mac users with vision impairment comes > from surveys which have the self selection problem (a lot of people > do not fill out surveys) which may over or under-estimate > MacinBlinks as we've no scientificly gathered data. Lighthouse and > other training centers don't count Macintosh users as they do not > train them so, as far as that class of NGO goes, we do not really > exist. > > As millions of Macs have shipped since the first VO, we've no clue > how many blinks are using them, how they are being used, etc. > > I would estimate, though, from my entirely unscientific survey of > names on mailing lists that Mac is hitting a previously unserved > population and doing so well enough for the users to spend time on > lists helping each other out. > > I do not, however, know how many people are on these lists - the > JAWS list has over 900 users last I looked and the Apple oriented > seem to have a lot fewer. Of course, pointing back to the top of > the message, if Mac is being used by tons of real novices, then we > have no way to get a census of VO use. > > Ah... tangled webs and the like... > > cdh > > To wit: > > cdh > On Oct 2, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: > >> Apple has played the 'let the best technology win in the long run' >> game for a while. Maybe that's why they have about 5% market share. >> Most people don't care and just get what their network recommend. >> So those already leaning towards Apple will cite antagonism and >> those leaning away will consider it affirmation. Neither will move >> much based on one review. >> >> CB >> >> Cameron wrote: >>> >>> Hi. It's depressing to think about the potential number of people >>> who after >>> reading that awful so called review, will not end up giving the >>> mac platform >>> a shot. With all the work apple has done, and continues to do in >>> terms of >>> out of the box accessibility, this is quite unfair. >>> >>> Cameron. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring >>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:06 AM >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, >>> political >>> parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. >>> Unfortunate, but >>> true. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "kaare dehard" <kaare.deh...@gmail.com> >>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> >>> I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather >>> sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like >>> the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. >>> That >>> certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged >>> credibility. >>> On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to >>>> make up for >>>> the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite >>>> admitting they >>>> were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is >>>> what I >>>> firmly believe. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "ben mustill-rose" <bmustillr...@gmail.com> >>>> To: <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM >>>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a >>>> device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the >>>> iphone >>>> with its touch screen. >>>> >>>> O well - step in the right direction anyway. >>>> >>>> On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs <kevj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >>>>> think. >>>>> K. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean- >>>>> Philippe >>>>> Rykiel >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Chris, >>>>> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >>>>> turn v o >>>>> on >>>>> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> JPR >>>>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>>>> >>>>> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >>>>> accessible via >>>>> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice >>>>> (not >>>>> Alex) >>>>> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. >>>>> That >>>>> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >>>>> Previous >>>>> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there >>>>> is >>>>> no >>>>> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >>>>> >>>>> CB >>>>> >>>>> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >>>>> with V O >>>>> as well? >>>>> JPR >>>>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >>>>> not >>>>> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known >>>>> from >>>>> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an >>>>> evolution >>>>> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the >>>>> fault of >>>>> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, >>>>> more >>>>> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >>>>> failed >>>>> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >>>>> for a >>>>> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time >>>>> for the >>>>> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >>>>> >>>>> CB >>>>> >>>>> william lomas wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>>>>> hyppocrits >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Kind regards, BEN. >>>> >>>> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com >>>> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com >>>> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
