On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 11:03:26PM +1100, Les Kitchen wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026, at 14:49, Craig Sanders via luv-main wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:12:39PM +1100, Alexar Pendashteh wrote: > >> You received the email because you are subscribed to luv-announce mailing > >> list. > > > > Right. I subscribed to luv-announce, not to Electron Workshop's list. > > > > This really shouldn't need to be said to anyone in the linux community, but > > apparently it does now: > > > > ADDING SOMEONE TO A MAILING LIST WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT IS SPAM. > > > > I did not give permission to Electron Workshop to add me to their list and I > > did not give permission to LUV to give my email address to any third party. > ... > > Craig, I think you've misconstrued the situation. This is not a > new mailing list, just the luv-announce list running on > different infrastructure, as Alexar explained — still managed by > LUV members. It's actually been this way for a while.
No, I haven't misconstrued anything. It's not the luv-announce list running on new infrastruture. It's a new list that I did not subscribe to. 1. luv-announce being ended was never announced 2. Nor was this new list announced on luv-announce, luv-main, luv-talk or any of the other LUV lists 3. Nothing in the spam message body OR the message headers mention luv-announce or anything similar 4. The relevant headers from the spam were: From [email protected] Mon Jan 19 20:50:19 2026 Return-Path: <[email protected]> From: Electron Workshop <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Upcoming Linux Events in Canberra List-Unsubscribe: <https://engage.electronworkshop.com.au/email/unsubscribe/696dedba31feb713633746/[email protected]/4178fc5b2d7b4c569ac5c56134edabfb8689a20104cde764f129ee0f8b6ec907> List-Unsubscribe-Post: List-Unsubscribe=One-Click * No mention of LUV or luv-announce. * A "no-reply@" address. * From an unknown domain that I'd never heard of before. Actually, two unknown domains - electronworkshop.org, and electronworkshop.com.au. The first suggesting a club or association (but in the US .org domain so sold without restriction to anyone willing to pay for it), and the second indicating a company or at least a business registration because they are requirements for a domain in .com.au. * No proper List-* identification headers at all. * There was a List-Unsubscribe header, which is both good and bad: potentially good because it exists, bad because there's no way in hell I'm ever going to click on a link from spammers. Nor do I ever "unsubscribe" from lists I never actually subscribed to - my response is to blacklist instead. * "engage" is the kind of word used by sleazy marketing vermin using Customer Relationship Managegement software who want to "drive engagement" and perpetrate other marketing scum phrases and buzz-words. > I'm puzzled why this couldn't have been done on the old luv-announce setup > (Russell Coker's post throws some light on this), but that's a matter for > discussion. luv-main and luv-talk may be very low volume these days but they still exist, still running with Mailman on the luv.asn.au server with a proper set of List headers, like so: List-Id: "Main LUV community and support mailing list." <luv-main.luv.asn.au> List-Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=help> List-Owner: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Post: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Subscribe: <mailto:[email protected]> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:[email protected]> There's no reason that luv-announce - an even lower volume list - could not have continued in the same way. > I know it's confusing and can be upsetting, and could have been It's not "confusing and upsetting". It's spam. Clear cut, obvious, and undeniable. > explained better, but we have a group of relatively new volunteers working > hard to support Linux in Victoria. They may be doing things in a way > different from what old-timers (like me) are used to, and still have some > things to learn. But probably a lot of what they're doing is necessary in > this new online environment. The main thing is that they're getting things > done, putting on events, and setting up usable infrastructure, and making > connections with kindred groups. None of that is an excuse for subscribing people to mailing lists without their consent or spamming them. > I know from my own experience that as a volunteer, sometimes it takes > all your available time and energy just to get the necessary jobs done. > Sometimes, explanations, while important, can drop down the priority list. This is not just a matter of explanations or even prior notice. Those would have been good, but even if they had happened, it still would not have excused adding me or anyone else to a new mailing list without consent. > I think it's unkind of you to accuse of lying the very people who are doing > the work to keep LUV going. If you want to help LUV (and FOSS), try to be > positive and respectful, and, yes, kind in your comments and contributions. Your attempt at emotional blackmail does not change the fact that they lied. They said, and I quote for the third time: "You’re getting this email because you gave us your email address." That is a lie. I DID NOT GIVE THEM MY EMAIL ADDRESS. What is so hard to understand about this? I've seen this exact same lie and many variants of it in countless spams over the decades. This lie is routine for spammers, so much so that the presence of it in an email is a VERY reliable indicator that the message is probably spam. Being spammed is annoying. Being lied to by the spammers that I actually asked for their spam (and phrased as if they're helpfully reminding me because I'm too fucking stupid to remember what I did or didn't subscribe to) adds insult to the injury. Patronising explanations that I just "misconstrued the situation" are also annoying and insulting. > P.S. About Electron Workshop, you wrote (earlier): > > >> > And given that there's a lot of blockchain bullshit on their web site, > >> > I doubt I'd ever want to have anything to do with them. > > It seems that you didn't actually read any of that (on > https://electronworkshop.org/). Chainconference is a project to support > people in running conferences. It has nothing to do with "blockchain" > (unless you want to run a conference on that topic). As always, you should > think and do your research before posting. That much is traditional > netiquette. That is irrelevant to my main point, which is that adding anyone to a mailing list without their consent is spam...but: I saw a portmanteau involving "chain" in an email from spammers and assumed it was related to block chain. That assumption was entirely reasonable because, while blockchain may be interesting to maths geeks and academic, in the real world it is a magnet for spammers, scammers, con-men, and related predators and parasites, and an even bigger magnet for fools. The natural and obvious interpretration is that they were spamvertising some blockchain conferences. I had no interest in investigating any further than that. If they don't want to be associated with blockchain bullshit, maybe they shouldn't invent or use new words that suggest it. "chain" in any computer, tech, or online context is irrevocably tainted. And it doesn't just suggest "scam", it screams it. craig _______________________________________________ luv-main mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
