Ok I admit your answer sounds much better than mine:) Ely Levy System group Hebrew University Jerusalem Israel
On 2 Jan 2003, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: > On Thu, 2003-01-02 at 14:19, Victor Zaslavsky wrote: > > 1. Do not forget support cost - it usually higher for Linux than for > > Windows (there was appropriate IDC report). > > A research paid for by Microsoft. Allow me to be skeptical... ;-) > > Linux is sometime cheaper and sometimes not so is every other solution > out there, but how do you qualify in the freedom and values you pass to > your children? > > A REAL school will choose Linux (and other free technologies) and will > use the *opportunity* to build a group of older children which will > support, guide and help their younger friends and the teachers. This > way, not only does support costs less - the children also learn a really > valuable skill set for life and also something more then a skill set. > > Think I'm dreaming? anyone here from the Leyada school raise you > hands... > > > 2. I want my kids to be ready to start their work immediately in any > > normal office. Why should I to sacrifice competitive strength of my kids > > to OS wars? > > So you think what your children need to be successful adults is full > knowledge of Word? > > Funny, I prefer my children to learn to think for themselves, be self > reliant, learn to solve problems and be creative, learn to protect their > rights and ask smart questions, not operate a word processor like good > drones. And for this they need tools they can take apart and put > together again like Lego, not closed source systems. > > And you know what? if they will learn these things then it's the other > children, those that will learn Word at school, that we will need to be > worried about their "competitive strengths" just like all my friends > from collage that learned Microsoft technologies that wont do them any > bit of good to take your last job offer discovered. > > Gilad. > > -- > Gilad Ben-Yossef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://benyossef.com > > Q: "What do you do if your Linux box goes down?" > A: "Sit around in the dark until the power comes back on" > > > > ================================================================= > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Return-path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Delivery-date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:12:22 +0200 > Received: from localhost > ([127.0.0.1] helo=cs ident=listar) > by cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp > id 18U53T-000Nj5-00; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:35 +0200 > Received: with LISTAR (v0.124a; list linux-il); Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:05:46 +0200 (IST) > Received: from taragon.tkos.co.il ([204.141.46.18] helo=tkos.co.il) > by cs.huji.ac.il with smtp > id 18U52e-000NhR-00 > for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:05:44 +0200 > Received: (qmail 11367 invoked by uid 508); 2 Jan 2003 13:05:43 -0000 > Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Received: (qmail 11361 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jan 2003 13:05:42 -0000 > Received: from trago.tkos.co.il (HELO zivan.tkos.co.il) (204.141.46.13) > by taragon.tkos.co.il with SMTP; 2 Jan 2003 13:05:42 -0000 > Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:35:55 +0200 (IST) > From: Jonathan Ben Avraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Ely Levy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc: Nadav Har'El <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ILUG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Edu in linux > In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Precedence: list > X-listar-version: Listar v0.124a > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Errors-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > X-original-sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Precedence: bulk > X-list: linux-il > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Ely Levy wrote: > > > crossover office writes/reads hebrew doc/ppt files. > > and if it's a matter of moving them from word.. > > well openoffice works on windows as well no?:) > > Hi Ely, > OOo works in Hebrew on Windows at we will soon be providing a Hebrew UI > for it, but the problem is still psychological inertia. You still need to > do import/export operations on both sides and sometimes the results aren't > so good. This is a real bummer for most users who still need to > communicate with the MS world out there. > > In any event, crossover/OOo are not Linux and your original inquiriy was > about Linux. OOo has a good chance of taking off here and it will make > Linux more acceptable in some circles, but not in K12. > > Again, try actually going out and talking about Linux in the schools. (I > even tried this at the American School in Kfar Shamryahu.) In some schools > I got a lot of attention - as some sort of freak. The first question the > teach responsible for computers asks is "who is going to support it?" And > when I say, "I will", they all have a good laugh. > Regards, > > - yba > > > > > > Ely Levy > > System group > > Hebrew University > > Jerusalem Israel > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Nadav Har'El wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 02, 2003, Jonathan Ben Avraham wrote about "Re: Edu in linux": > > > > > Hi Ely, > > > > > You are wasting your time. Israeli K12 has no use for Linux. Been there, > > > > > done that. If the kids don't have the same OS at school as at home then > > > > > forget it. If it doesn't run MS Word, then forget it. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > I admit it's been a few years since I went to school (I left highschool > > > > 11 years ago), but my experience was completely different from what you > > > > describe. > > > > > > > > In elementary school (6th grade) we learned arithmetic on a computer > > > > for one hour a week; That computer had some unknown OS that we had no > > > > access to - we only used the arithmetic-teaching software itself. > > > > > > Hi Nadav, > > > A bit has changed in eleven years. I suspect that you experience is no > > > longer relevant. All the schools have Windows. The kids have windows at > > > home. The Windows vocabulary has entered our daily Hebrew speech. My kids > > > (all 10 of them) had to submit a portion of their homework assignments in > > > .doc format (Gush Etzion school system) for the past four years. My wife > > > is in a masters program at Touro College and Beit Morasha where the > > > homework assignments are distributed in Word and the homework must be > > > submitted in Word. I suggest that you actually go try to talk to these > > > people about Linux and see what happens. > > > > > > There is also persistent institutional resistance to Linux at varous > > > places in the relevant ministry. > > > Regards, > > > > > > - yba > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 10th grade we learned BASIC (!) on antique Apple II machines (!!) - > > > > both the language and the machine and its OS were almost obsolete at the > > > > time, and NOBODY had these at home. In fact, most of the kids probably did > > > > not have a computer at home at all! But the ideas we learned were (or > > > > at least supposed to be) universal. > > > > > > > > In 11th grade we learned Turbo Pascal on DOS. Windows (3.1) was already > > > > available, and common, at the time, but it wasn't considered "pchitut kavod" > > > > not to study on it. > > > > > > > > We never studied MS-Word, or any word processor, when I was at school. > > > > Kids were free to use it (or whatever word processor they had) to write > > > > schoolwork, but nobody tried to force a specific set of tools on them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > EE 77 7F 30 4A 64 2E C5 83 5F E7 49 A6 82 29 BA ~. .~ Tk Open Systems > > > =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{= > > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il - > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > EE 77 7F 30 4A 64 2E C5 83 5F E7 49 A6 82 29 BA ~. .~ Tk Open Systems > =}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{= > - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il - > > > ================================================================= > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ================================================================= To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
