On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 11:00 PM Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> wrote:
> > Folks, > > > please calm down. Nobody here is insinuating anything! As far as I > can see, we have a clash of concepts that is probably not resolvable > in *any* satisfying way. Consequently, the only way forward is to > minimize the fallout, namely by providing explanations what a musical > term 'foo' means in LilyPond, and why there are differences to its > standard, colloquial usage. > > > Most helpful of all was the suggestion that the grob descriptions > > given as IR 3.1 ... > > > > > https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/internals/all-layout-objects > > > > ... be expanded to list *all* properties for a given grob, rather > > than only the properties that a grob *changes* from interface > > defaults. > > Jean has shown a possible solution to that, at least for the HTML > page; I'm attaching his image here (taken from > https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6210). We now have to > find a way to implement that in Texinfo while still getting decent > results in the other output formats. > > Now answering to other comments. > > Matthew wrote: > > > The point isn't to list properties with no effect, but to list *all* > > of the properties that *do* have an effect > > As demonstrated by Harm, this is not possible, for various, mostly > technical, reasons. In addition to that, the IR is a static document > that *cannot* reflect the state of LilyPond at an arbitrary point of > time while processing an input document. Instead, it presents > LilyPond in a pristine state, before any `*.ly` files has been loaded, > more or less (including LilyPond's own startup files). > > > But one might well also ask, if there are useless properties with no > > effect, then why are there useless properties with no effect, > > Again, Harm demonstrated that this can be dynamically changed in many > cases, suddenly 'activating' properties and vice versa. If there are > grobs that LilyPond really ignores by using hard-coded values instead, > it should be documented, and it is a bug if there is no documentation > for that. > Hi Werner, Thanks so much for summarizing the thread; super helpful. My point in revivifying the discussion from 2021 was to upvote the prototype that Jean provided back then, so thanks for re-linking to his example. I am a touch worried about something, though: Matthew > The point isn't to list properties with no effect, but to list *all* > of the properties that *do* have an effect Werner: > As demonstrated by Harm, this is not possible, for various, mostly > technical, reasons. Is what's being communicated here that (for technical reasons) users won't *ever* be able to visit a single page of documentation somewhere and see all the properties that affect a grob? -- Trevor Bača www.trevorbaca.com soundcloud.com/trevorbaca
