Gentlepersons, Without the "h" would we have Liszt's Fantasy and Fugue on BACH or Schumann's Six Fugues on BACH?
Mark -----Original Message----- From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr....@gnu.org] On Behalf Of David Wright Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 11:46 AM To: Hans Åberg <haber...@telia.com>; David Nalesnik <david.nales...@gmail.com> Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org Subject: Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent On Thu 14 May 2020 at 10:38:59 (+0200), Hans Åberg wrote: > > On 14 May 2020, at 03:38, David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote: > > > > I can't say that I've met > > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B. > > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and > > orchestral players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German > > music? > > In general, there is a divide in musical notation in Europe, one is Germany, > and to the north and south and east, and the other, the countries to the > west, France, England, etc. > > One difference is the note names, H and B in the Germanic tradition [1], and > J.S. Bach used it [2]. Thank you, very useful. On Thu 14 May 2020 at 07:45:23 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote: > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:39 PM David Wright <lily...@lionunicorn.co.uk> > wrote: > > On Wed 13 May 2020 at 16:35:48 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote: > > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:34 PM antlists <antli...@youngman.org.uk> wrote: > > > > On 13/05/2020 16:38, David Kastrup wrote: > > > > > Given the number of English-speaking LilyPond users who all > > > > > share the somewhat strange habit of calling a b-flat "b" if > > > > > there is a flat in the key signature, it is sort of a safe bet > > > > > that you are not the first to make this kind of proposal. > > > > > > > > Are these the same ones who call b an h? > > > > > > > > Certainly for someone who's mother tongue is English (NOT > > > > American) I'd never call b-flat a b because how would I tell > > > > whether it's flat or not :-) > > > > > > ! hear it a lot in the US. (And it's often correlated with losing > > > sight of the key signature...) > > > > Assuming ! stands for "I" and not negation, I can't say that I've > > met English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B. > > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and > > orchestral players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German > > music? > > Hi David Wright, > > Once again the name "David" rears its head! You are mixing my > response with David Kastrup's I think I would have as much difficulty doing that as my email client would. AIUI David Kastrup lives in Germany, in b/h land, but without any context, I don't know whether this meant that he thought English-speaking LilyPond users were steeped in the Germanic tradition, or just being polite¹, confused², confusing³, or just plain incompetent (perhaps implied by "strange habit"). Wol gave these "b" people the benefit of the doubt as being "b/h" people (but why was the American tongue mentioned?). When you, David Nalesnik, wrote "! hear it a lot in the US", I wondered where, specifically. I think the main difference over here is note and rest lengths. As you might gather from the combination of my email domain and my timezone (and yours), I take an interest in such differences, even if only as post-rehearsal pub-chat⁴. So I was perplexed by your post about my mixing up your response with David K's. Perhaps you might explain the referent of "it", if it's not ‘calling a b-flat "b"’. ¹ When in Rome … ² Accidentally switching between bf/b and b/h inappropriately. ³ Calling notes by staff position without regard to key signature. ⁴ Assuming we sing again and pubs are still in business. Cheers, David.
