On Thursday 03 February 2005 07:42 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > So - can I respectfully suggest we have a big bug here - either > > > in the manual or in the implementation of transposition. And imho > > > the bug should be in the implementation - by changing the > > > implementation > > > > Can I respectfully mention that I still don't understand what > > you're trying to achieve? What do you want to see in the notation, > > what do you want to hear in MIDI, and what do you want to enter in > > .ly ? > > Okay. I'll try and explain. But I think I've worked out what's going > on, and why (not saying I agree with it, though). > > Transposition works the way it does because certain instruments (the > Horn in particular) sometimes change pitch while playing. (Horns swap > a crook, trumpets and clarinets swap instruments.) This, obviously, > is a nightmare for lilypond if you're trying to output both a score > and a soundtrack. > > I'm coming at it from a very different angle. I don't give a damn > about MIDI, and I'm using lilypond as a music-typesetting program > (which, indeed, I thought it was). And I play an instrument which, in > a different way, is as unusual as the horn changing pitch half-way > through a piece. Depending on the whim of the composer (well, not > quite), music for me can be written in C or in Bb. When I'm looking > at my .ly files, I can't say "that's the trombone, therefore those > notes are concert pitch". When I saw the \transpose directive, I > missed the bit about "midi only", and thought "great - I can enter > the notes in Bb, and that will tell lilypond how to convert it to C". > > I *really* *don't* *want* to have half my music with a "\transpose bf > c" directive in it, and the other half with "\transpose c bf" in it. > The current option is to transpose all the Bb parts in my head as I > enter them (or work out how to get that editor to do it for me). It'd > be nice if lily could do it for me. > > So I'm coming at it from the point of view that "lily is a > typesetter", I have multiple parts in multiple transpositions, and I > really do not want the hassle of having to remember which parts are > in which transpositions - I want everything internal to lily to be in > C. > > Now bear in mind I'm a programmer by trade, and I missed the warning > about "midi only" :-) It really seems inconsistent to me for > \transposition to convert one form of output (sound) to concert > pitch, while not converting the other (paper). > > Basically, the fly in the ointment is those damn instruments that > change transposition mid-piece :-) Either we enter the notes > transposed, and have hacks to cope with outputting midi at concert > pitch, or we enter the notes at concert pitch, and have hacks to cope > with outputting music as a playable part. > > Coupled with the fact that a concert-pitch score makes finding > accidental misprints much easier (intentional double-entendre), I > would much rather think in concert pitch, and transpose transposing > instruments on output. I also think the current implementation of > \transposition is inconsistent (yes I know - now I understand, I > think the reasons are very sensible...) > > So. I understand the "why". I don't really think it's right, but the > alternative is just as bad. Can we add a property that says "apply > transposition to printed output" or "transpose notes according to > transposition on input" (either implementation would work)? And where > do I start looking if I want to encode this myself? Not having got to > grips with lily internals properly yet, I'd be inclined to adjust > notes by instrumentTransposition as the parser reads them, but I > don't know how viable an approach that is. > > Cheers, > Wol
What's missing is an editing tool. Lilypond code would be required to make something that did languages, etc., or a transposer would have been written by now. The simpler task of filling in missing chromatics on the basis of the key signature has been done at least twice. daveA -- The only technical exercises for guitar which are worthy of the instrument consist in "Dynamic Guitar Technique". I promise miracles. Get it at: http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html daveA David Raleigh Arnold dra..at..openguitar.com _______________________________________________ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
