Nick, I think you possibly misunderstood me or perhaps I didn't explain it very well. I would have liked to have the stable 5 release ready for FOSDEM but realistically I would be happy if we were ready to create the v5 branch and tag rc1 by FOSDEM. That's a far more realistic goal. I don't want to rush v5 out. I still need to fix a few things with the remapping and the new symbol library editor has a least one crash bug that needs to be fixed before I would be comfortable with branching v5. I just don't see any possibility of getting v5 released by FOSDEM even if I didn't sleep until then. :) I want to give everyone at least a month to get the libraries, docs, translations, and packages ready from the time the source tree is tagged as stable. If we got the stable 5 release out by the end of March, I would be pretty happy.
Cheers, Wayne On 01/07/2018 04:06 PM, Nick Østergaard wrote: > Hello all, > > I will attempt to summarize the status as I see it. > > Lots of fixes have been comming in over the last few weeks. But if we > are to keep up with Wayne's goal of having a v5 release for FOSDEM, I > think we tag 5.0.0-rc1 soon. There is no reason we can still fix stuff > untill we make the final 5.0.0 release, and create the 5.0 branch from > there. Then we can unfreeze the feature freeze on master, and git > describe matster will be relative to this point. I have attached an > example and caricature of the previous kicad branching and how I see > expect the future too look like. > > We shall accept that it will probably only be a release candidate for > FOSDEM, but that would be great too! > > If there are some things that simply need to be in 5.0.0 -- I think we > need a shoutout now. Looking at > https://launchpad.net/kicad/+milestone/5.0.0-rc1 > <https://launchpad.net/kicad/+milestone/5.0.0-rc1> there are only two > outstanding bugs. > > The library team seem to be ready to tag also, > https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/issues/133 > <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/issues/133> > > I guess the doc will not have much time to get much love before the > release. But this is mostly about new features not being documented and > probably some cleanup and modernization. I guess we are more likely to > get some feedback on the docs after the first v5 release. > > The translations will need a bit of touchup on some languages, the ones > almost done but needs a bit is en, ru, de, and es. These can probably > reach 100% before v5 if we are lucky. This sort of requires we have a > kicad tag to update against. I think some of those languages also keep > unused strings, so even if it is not at 100% it might be complete. But I > am not sure about this. > > Regards > Nick Østergaard > > > > 2018-01-02 21:07 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>>: > > I plan on adding the remapping feature to the Eeschema documentation > before the stable 5 release. Hopefully I can find the time to knock it > out it the next week or two to give our translators plenty of time. > > On 1/2/2018 2:59 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote: > > Of course. My confusion mostly surrounds how it interacts with rescue > > and when it does and does not decide to write things to disk (see > José's > > point about it clobbering its own backups). > > > > In any case, I don't need you to explain it to me. You and I > aren't the > > only KiCad users, and if people who've been using KiCad for years and > > have actual dev experience (specifically myself and José here) can't > > figure it out, scads of users are going to have the same problem. It > > needs to be made clearer, not explained on the mailing list. > > > > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:55:31PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: > >> Let's start at the beginning. Are you clear on why symbols need > to be > >> remapped? > >> > >> On 1/2/2018 2:52 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote: > >>> Honestly, with this symbol library stuff it's been hard for me > to figure > >>> out what's a bug and what's a confusing design decision. Bug > reports for > >>> the latter are rather frowned upon so I've been refraining from > filing > >>> many bugs. > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:51:14PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: > >>>> I just tested this repo and it failed to remap every symbol so > either > >>>> something has been broken or this project is a corner case that I > >>>> haven't stumbled across yet. I will keep informed of my > progress. In > >>>> the future, please file bug report when you see something like > this. If > >>>> you just discuss it on irc, I have no way of knowing this is an > issue > >>>> unless I manage to free up some time (unlikely any time soon) > to spend > >>>> on irc. > >>>> > >>>> On 1/2/2018 2:42 PM, José Ignacio wrote: > >>>>> This sequence of actions is what puts the project on a stuffed > up state: > >>>>> > >>>>> * Open schematic and be greeted with some symbols that need > rescue, > >>>>> rescue a couple symbols > >>>>> * Be greeted by the remap dialog (1) > >>>>> * Regret remapping and quit without save > >>>>> * Open schematic again > >>>>> * Be greeted by the rescue dialog, with ALL symbols, refuse > >>>>> * Remap dialog fails to find anything, click through (2) > >>>>> > >>>>> Schematic looks fine, but the remap and rescue dialogs will > show up > >>>>> every time even though there is a valid sym-lib-table. > >>>>> > >>>>> (1) At this point the pro file is overwritten, deleting all > project > >>>>> library entries > >>>>> (2) At this point the pro file is overwritten again!, > clobbering the > >>>>> backup (SOL) > >>>>> > >>>>> If you accept the second rescue you will have to map everything > >>>>> manually. The remapper should really take the existing > sym-lib-table or > >>>>> just not clobber the pro file until the schematic is saved. > >>>>> > >>>>> The close without save step should be perfectly valid if > you're just > >>>>> peeking at an old project and (possibly much later) you want to go > >>>>> modify it you're greeted with that bad surprise. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Chris Pavlina > <pavlina.ch...@gmail.com <mailto:pavlina.ch...@gmail.com> > >>>>> <mailto:pavlina.ch...@gmail.com > <mailto:pavlina.ch...@gmail.com>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:20:10PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh > wrote: > >>>>> > It's exactly as insane as the cache has always been. > >>>>> > >>>>> I respectfully disagree. As I recall from many years of > using KiCad > >>>>> before this, nothing about the cache has ever > spontaneously deleted all > >>>>> libraries without warning. That's a whole new level of > insanity that > >>>>> deserves its own "what not to do" section in a UX book > somewhere. (And > >>>>> before you think this is all just "this UX guide sez" > vague complaining, > >>>>> don't forget that I and many others still have _no idea > wtf we're doing_ > >>>>> trying to drive this thing.) > >>>>> > >>>>> > The only way I can > >>>>> > think of this happening is that the schematic was not > saved after the > >>>>> > remapping and once all of the libraries are removed from > the project > >>>>> > file but cache should still be valid if no save was > performed. Let me > >>>>> > try remapping this project and I will get back to you. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On 1/2/2018 2:08 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote: > >>>>> > > Ah, that explains my question mark case. That's insane. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:08:11PM -0600, José Ignacio > wrote: > >>>>> > >> One big problem is that even if everything fails, the > project > >>>>> will show up > >>>>> > >> fine with all symbols, but they wont have the remap > done. at > >>>>> the same time > >>>>> > >> the remapper deletes all library entries from the > project file, > >>>>> which > >>>>> > >> causes it to open with question marks only if you > reopen it > >>>>> again after > >>>>> > >> saving. It should show the question marks before then > or make > >>>>> better use of > >>>>> > >> the cache. > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:44 PM, Chris Pavlina > >>>>> <pavlina.ch...@gmail.com <mailto:pavlina.ch...@gmail.com> > <mailto:pavlina.ch...@gmail.com <mailto:pavlina.ch...@gmail.com>>> > >>>>> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >>> Keep in mind my problem is not necessarily that > things are > >>>>> _broken_ but > >>>>> > >>> perhaps that they are so opaque that they only make > sense in > >>>>> the mind of > >>>>> > >>> the designer. As I said in the previous message, > we've been > >>>>> getting TONS > >>>>> > >>> of people on IRC who can't figure out how the hell > to drive > >>>>> this thing, > >>>>> > >>> and I count myself among them. Still takes me like > three tries > >>>>> to load > >>>>> > >>> an old project without it stuffing everything up. > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:40:40PM -0500, Wayne > Stambaugh wrote: > >>>>> > >>>> Please send me a sample project if possible. I > have tested > >>>>> this every > >>>>> > >>>> which way I can think of and it works fine for > everything I > >>>>> throw at it. > >>>>> > >>>> The only time things fall apart are when the cache is > >>>>> corrupted or > >>>>> > >>>> missing and/or rescues have be ignored. In those > cases there > >>>>> is nothing > >>>>> > >>>> I can do because the proper symbols do not exist > anywhere so > >>>>> remapping > >>>>> > >>>> is not possible. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>> On 1/2/2018 1:33 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Are we really going to do an RC now without any > more work to > >>>>> the remap > >>>>> > >>>>> stuff? I just had it ruin another project last > night. It > >>>>> behaves very > >>>>> > >>>>> poorly when things also have to be rescued or > libraries are > >>>>> missing, it > >>>>> > >>>>> seems. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Wayne > Stambaugh wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 1/2/2018 8:58 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>> On 28/12/17 20:24, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> There are a few outstanding crash bugs that > need to be > >>>>> fixed before > >>>>> > >>> we > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> can consider branching the stable 5 release. > Here is the > >>>>> list of > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> unresolved crash bugs that effect the > development branch: > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788> > >>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274> > >>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872> > >>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999> > >>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614> > >>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253> > >>>>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> Hey Wayne, > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> I fixed the remaining 2 bugs yesterday (the STEP > import > >>>>> one is a bug > >>>>> > >>> in > >>>>> > >>>>>>> OCE). Please proceed with the 5.0-rc. > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> Tom > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Tom, > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks!. I wont have time to get to this until the > >>>>> weekend. If there > >>>>> > >>>>>> are no additional critical severity bug reports > by then, I > >>>>> will create > >>>>> > >>>>>> the version 5 branch. > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Wayne > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > >>>>>> Mailing list: > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Post to : > kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Unsubscribe : > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > >>> Mailing list: > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >>>>> > >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net>> > >>>>> > >>> Unsubscribe : > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >>>>> > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
