2015-01-18 6:32 GMT+00:00 Jonathan Aquilina <eagles051...@gmail.com>: > > see my responses inline. > > On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 6:02 AM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) <amjja...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> A moment of truth before it is too late :) >> >> I'm totally lost with many emails with the very same subject and/or contents, talking about almost the same thing. The only difference is: there are more than one email. But if someone read these emails, he/she will find hard time to tell the 'real' difference and the real reason behind several threads. I do fail to see the point here and have no idea why? do we lack the basics of communications? or am I missing something here? no blaming here, just being super honest and direct to the point. >> Before X disagrees with Y and before Y responds to X, and before Z steps in and do anything ... can we please take a moment and re-think in different way? aren't we missing something MUCH MORE important and obvious than a website and recruiting people or mailing lists or servers? perhaps I was very wrong for NOT prioritize our to do list - blame me if you wish - but let's look ahead and move forward .. in the same time, learn from our mistakes. Something is missing here - to be discussed in #3 >> We DO NEED a project/team structure BEFORE we start ANYTHING. Why? because I, for one, have no idea what is going on? who is in charge of what? why X steps in always and Y is watching? lots of unanswered Qs and the reason is, I/We are discussing a LESS important topics thinking these topics are the most important of all. No. We're wrong. We do miss much more important step .. thanks to Gustavo who mentioned that in away on one of his replies. >> I'd suggest before we move forward with anything, we MUST come up with a team structure and distribute the tasks :) without that, it would be a REAL HUGE MESS. >> Once we are done form that (it should take 24 maximum), we can move forward in more effective, organized and productive way. > > Agree totally here to all points. >
Well, I mentioned all of that here: https://lists.launchpad.net/kibo-project/msg00438.html That is why I created that thread. Jonathan has been providing different messages and some are really interesting - For instance, this morning he emailed us about Jabber. It is not something to go to waste, but with mailing lists I feel that we can't keep up with such things. It gets too confusing. >> >> In short, I think the NEW priority to-do-list is: >> >> Team Structure: >> >> Each one of us MUST - IMHO - has a role. >> Once each one of us has a role, he/she will have a tasks to do. >> While it is very healthy to share opinions within the team, I find it - specially in the future - very hard to carry on if X will step into Y's area and so on. *While Kibo's concept is taken from Ubuntu where a whole team could lead a project, that must be tweaked as Kibo is a business project and tasks - IMHO - must be distributed wisely and before that, roles must be decided first.* > > Agreed as well with the points. Are these set out on the website yet? If not they should be that way one can go to the site and use it as a reference as to whose doing what. In terms of back end server admin stuff. Since I caused all this confusion I can kindly step back or push forward to lead the infrastructure team. There aren't and shouldn't be on the website. This was defined whenever we replied to a spreadsheet and Ali has been trying to show us the current teams. But... Didn't we already solve this part? I mean, we all know what we are doing here. But, I'm confused. Are you angry because I put some content on the website? Yes, it is not my role, but it is a priority so I got my hands to work. And personally, I feel the problem is in that part that I bolded. Maybe I understood the concept of Kibo wrong, but the concept taken from Ubuntu and open source is not actually "free-stuff" or "open-source" business. Thus I disagree to share a lot of stuff in our homepage in regard to the open-source world (thus my mambo-jambo about our business model). However, it is using the open source tools to actually develop some work to some potential customers and show them it can work as good as others to fulfil their needs. Even though people feel interested and excited for this, they tend to overrun the concept, thus leading to " Once each one of us has a role, he/she will have a tasks to do. " that sometimes doesn't happen in Open Source projects. This is the exact reason why I said something before like "Please don't forget this is business". Yet, I should clarify one particular bit: I added content to the website because no one did before. As you said and actually made a lot of sense, having stuff written in a document is completely different of having it posted in our website. I posted some stuff and could immediately note things that must be changed. I wasn't usurping any responsibility and no one should feel like that. As a matter of fact, I decided to dedicate some time to do so. And once again, this is a concerning part for me too: If I'm responsible for the business here, then I must care about our presentation to people - potential employees and customers. > >> >> Internal Team Communications: >> >> The current approach is definitely not healthy and not doing any good to us at all. Something is wrong. Before we spend time, efforts and energy to blame the platform, let's have a moment of truth and admit we're not following the correct way to communicate. At least, this is what I feel. Feel free to disagree with me. I agree and disagree. I agree we're using it wrong, but I disagree that using it correctly will help. And I'm pretty certain the previous situation will happen again - It already happened actually... I posted a thread and you needed to open another one to send this email for instance, even though its content is 90% based on what I already brought up to discussion here <https://lists.launchpad.net/kibo-project/msg00438.html>. >> Once we find out what is wrong with our internal communications, we need to find the BEST alternatives for US, not for the world. It is WE who are going to use some platforms and before these are helpful for US, these platforms MUST help Kibo. Remember, without Kibo, we're no longer a team if you know what I mean. Kibo's project is gathering us under one roof. So, whatever we need to go for, this must first of all help Kibo itself before it helps us. What you don't like might help the project. What does not help the project might be very great for you. Kibo first, then us. Feel free to disagree with me and I'm open to any correction/suggestion/feedback. The problem IMO is this platform doesn't fit business (of any kind)... We are also using it wrong, yes, but we are doing things wrong because that is how we want to do things. I saw this video yesterday about a review of a to-do app and the guy said something that made me think why I am not that keen on that specific task: "We must choose our app arsenal accordng to us". If that's the case, then we must find the best alternative for us. And honestly? Mailing lists will not suffice and sooner or later you'll realize that. >> If we are serious enough, why only Emily has sent me her phone number? no trust? or you disagree? forgot? what is the reason why I have not received any other phone number? >> We should have MORE than 1 platform to communicate. I would name: >> >> Phones for urgent and important stuff >> Emails (not mailing lists, I mean E-mails) >> Since we're meeting and doing video calls on Google Hangout, our Google+ Community could be used as a secondary media or platforms. >> Perhaps a 4th media/platform for internal communications NOT work progress, projects, etc. I am talking about communications here :) >> >> > Phones: will give you ali my number in private. and we can create a group on whats app if that is what we are using. For me that is the easiest and least costly to me in terms of messaging etc. > emails: you already have everyones personal email from the LP mailing list > hangouts: sadly the time you guys meet I would be fast asleep. > other platform: I want to suggest etherpad (its like google docs in a way) it will allow us to share ideas as well as be a place for meeting points to be put and different project tasks its an alternative to trello. and open source What are we using? WhatsApp? Even though I'm not pleased with the idea, as I've shown before, I didn't share mine because I haven't been around and have been through hard times to get some things done for my thesis. One thing: What are we going to do when the we are forced to pay for the app? I think after 1 year of use they'll make it private-access only (aka for those who pay). Can I suggest another structure? - A cloud-based project management software (whichever you like) and that would deal with project development, business management and even chit-chats - or more serious chats. Oh, it would also help us store our important docs in a more organized matter. It also helps with personalized requests, avoiding the use of emails. - Hangouts for meetings (2 or more parties). > >> >> Website: >> >> The logo must be ready to be published. >> Website Alpha should be ready in 24-48 hours from now. Once that is ready, we can start tweaking, updating, adding, etc. >> By 1st of Feb, 2015, the final version of our website must be up and running as we discussed before. >> Our website is not only for clients, it is also for newcomers we need to recruit. This link: http://amjjawad.net/kibo/ is not helpful and people need to 'see' more organized stuff. So, having an up and running website is helpful in two ways: clients and recruiting. >> While we believe in: "All of us are smarter than anyone if us", there must be a website team who take FULL responsibility. Because we're only 7 at this point, we need a technical person and someone who knows what to put on the website. More might be helpful but I fail to see why we should allocate more than 2 out of 7 for the website unless I'm missing something. This should be done 'after' having a final website. Since we're at the Alpha Stage for the website, I think more hands are needed unless I'm wrong. > > This can stay on my server for now its no problem at all. I have something else I want to implement to make things even quicker called HHVM which does some interesting stuff with php. This is why I started believing you're upset because I uploaded some content to the website. First of all, I only copy-pasted your texts (and re-wrote some small things actually) to see what it would look like. We're not advertising the thing, so I don't think there is harm on that. While I agree with this paragraph, I think there's something I'm not following: - What is wrong about me or anybody else publishing content to the website just to have an alpha version? - I think we can't dedicate too many people to it but I do think we need a sys admin - to help us troubleshoot anything that comes up (like formatting things) - and someone to update our blog frequently. It can't be the same, since their areas of expertise are entirely different. Once we have the website fully running, then I guess one person is enough, but sometimes we might need help from our sys admin. >> >> Recruit people: Only when all the above is done or at least we started working on, we can start to recruit people from: >> >> Real Life: each one of us - IMHO - should help and recruit. >> Social Media: by using different channels such as our own channels. Kibo's channels are new and without followers now. Later, that can be different. >> Internet: Blogs, contact 3rd parties, etc. >> Please note: there is NO harm to recruit people while working on the above items, I am not saying do not recruit. I am setting priorities from my eyes and I could be wrong :) I believe having the website running and social media, we'll be enough to recruit people. >> >> >> I couldn't sleep last night and I missed ToriOS's team because I couldn't come up with the above list last night. I guess I managed to do that now. >> >> I'm not an expert, I'm not perfect. I will never claim that in my entire life. You could be better than me. You can do things in better ways with better results. There are lots of things I might be wrong about. There are too lots of things you could be correct about. All that is not important, trust me. What does really matter is: Kibo and the team. >> >> All of us are smarter than anyone of us. Only, if that will be done in the correct way. >> >> Every beginning is hard. >>> >>> Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. >> >> And, I'm sure you know who said that one :) >> >> I have started Kibo, not because I'm jobless and striving to find a job. I have started Kibo because I believe in the concepts and above all, I want to do something I love, not something I have to do just because I'm forced to do just because I need money. Life worth much more than money. You may disagree with me, that's fine, but this is how I see it from my eyes. >> >> Last but not least, our disagreements should NOT tear us apart, period. >> >> Have a wonderful day, everyone! >> >> P.S. >> >> I don't want to share my own number on a public mailing list but once you send yours, I shall reply with mine. >> >> P.S.2 >> >> We need to use a free messaging service and the best option for me now is Whatsapp. Works on my two very old phones :) >> >> >> -- >> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." >> Best Regards, >> Ali/amjjawad >> http://torios.org - StartUbuntu - Ubuntu GNOME - http://amjjawad.net >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >> Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> > > > > -- > Jonathan Aquilina > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project > Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Best Regards / Obrigado e com os melhores cumprimentos, Gustavo
-- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
