On Thu, 31 May 2001 09:02:54 +1200 (NZST) Penguina
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ever hear the phrase, "Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and
> *perhaps* Cornell"? Dartmouth doesn't even figure into
> it. And sorry, you were saying that the faculty should
> be responsible for keeping track of when frat parties
> were, so they could hold pop quizzes the next day.
> That's not academics, that's babysitting.
No, actually, I haven't heard that phrase. My reasons for
coming to school here are, in order: quality of academic
program, professors (not TAs) teaching classes, campus
atmosphere -- I am proud to go to a school that is strong
academically, but whose students still know the value of
down time. Dartmouth students are happy people -- and no,
it's not because we're constantly drunk. ;) For actual
numbers on where the colleges stand,
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/natunivs/natu_a2.htm
is quite helpful.
And I was certainly not suggesting that profs should keep a
social calendar of greek parties. Profs have been
complaining for rather a while that students don't show up
to Thursday morning classes because of house meetings on
Wednesday night. My suggestion was simply that profs should
give quizzes on Thursday mornings as a solution.
Alternatively, they could make their classes hard enough
that students won't be able to pass without attending.
> And sorry, I've been a postdoc or grad student, visiting
> faculty or faculty mentor at several of the schools
> mentioned, and it was pretty clear from reading the
> on-campus rag, going to womens' groups meetings, talking
> to the administration, faculty and students that there
> is a very clear connection between the Greek system and
> date rape/gang rape/drug rape -- particularly the
> latter. It's far worse at Big-10 schools, as is sexual
> harassment in general.
Again, numbers? I spent a bit of time last night researching
the subject, and I couldn't find anything concrete.
Underreporting of sexual assaults is a problem at every
college, regardless of Greek presence, and so it is hard to
"compare" schools in this way. I can tell you that focusing
on the Greek system in attempting to stop rape isn't going
to work. Alcohol is indeed a problem, and alcohol abuse is
often very closely tied with sexual assault -- but this
certainly isn't a problem solely within fraternities.
> Do you actually KNOW any frat guys? Don't you know that
> they keep old exams and homeworks on file at Frats? Of
> course their GPA is higher--that's because they CHEAT.
> I've seen them DO it.
*ah-hem* I *am* a member of a co-ed fraternity, a frat "guy"
(in the loosest sense of the term...) if you will. I have
_never_ cheated in my academic career. None of my brothers
cheat. Have you heard of the Dartmouth Honor Code, perhaps?
Students here take it incredibly seriously. I have witnessed
and heard of several incidents where students had the
opportunity to cheat, and refused, not because they would
get caught, but because it wasn't the right thing to do.
> Yah, and the only thing the Greek system adds to a
> candidates abilities is an insensitivity to rape
> victims, extreme misogyny and (ahem) a proclivity to
> surf for porn rather than doing their job. This is all
> based on personal observation.
>
> But you know what? I'm entitled to my prejudices on that
> point. If it were race, gender, religion, no. But what
> Frat or Sorority they were in, yeah, I'm entitled to my
> prejudices.
So, we're currently discussing this issue on a list that's
geared towards women in the tech
industry. One would think that here, of all places, people
would not be so quick to stereotype such a large group as
members of the Greek system. Greek members on Dartmouth's
campus include males,females,Jews,Christians,straights,gays,
future lawyers,geeks,alcoholics,tea-totalers,football
players,actors, etc, etc.
Greek houses do countless hours of community service,
including teaching classes at the local prisons, and helping
to build houses with Habitat for Humanity and Cover. We host
cultural events and presentations open to the entire campus.
And, most importantly (at least to me) is the support system
that exists inside a Greek house, and how much each
individual member cares about every other member, and about
the house as a whole. I have become more mature as a member
of my house than I ever would have on my own. I am more
responsible for my actions, and I am more comfortable with
who I am. I think you would do your daughter a great
disservice by not allowing her to go to a school where she
could experience the same thing.
> Not as a primary criterion, but if I were faced with two
> candidates with virtually indistinguishable
> capabilities, I'd go for the Princeton grad before the
> Cornell grad, and I'd go for the Telluride geek before
> having anything to do with a Deke. At least I'd know
> that their grades meant something.
>
FYI, Harvard again has fraternities (they just officially
recognized a new chapter of SAE a few months ago), Princeton
eating clubs are certainly no better than fraternities and
Yale has secret societies. Will you now eliminate all people
from the above universities from your potential employees
list?
I do hope that in the future you try to have a more open
mind about such matters.
Regards,
Kristin
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