Alright, you want a straight up answer, I'll provide you one. Here is my constructive criticism. I'd like to be able to opt-out of this conversation and not further have it flood my inbox and be able to actually get back to what matters and what I and most everyone else signed up for (PHP Development, Code).
I'm not saying it doesn't have merit, but I've long since lost interest and feel it is being unnecessarily drawn out and extended indefinitely (or at least well beyond my point of interest).. I feel you HAVE been given an answer numerous times and simply because you dislike that answer(s), you refuse to move past it. You seem to be under the false assumption that by complaining and dragging this conversation out, people will give in blindly just to shut you up. You're wrong. If anything, it has only strengthen my resolve to pointing out that this conversation is outside of the scope of the conversation that I and others subscribed toward (PHP code development). With that all said, your merit that there is a level of abuse that can hypothetically take place is valid but no more so than anywhere else. Abuse happens. People are not always nice. And it doesn't matter where you go, someone is likely going to be a bad apple. Welcome to humanity If you know how to fix that level of humanity, please do share. Because any measure of change we could possibly make, anywhere, can and will be abused by someone, always. Writing down a guideline or code of conduct will not change that. But if you want to write that code of conduct, please, feel free to actually publish an outline code of conduct here, right now, and I and everyone else will be happy to review it. Because as it stands now, all I hear (read) is arguing and complaining, but you've yet to offer an actual draft (solution). On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:51 AM, John Bafford <jbaff...@zort.net> wrote: > Adam, Sascha, > > > On Jan 13, 2016, at 08:53, Adam Howard <oldschool...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Well, I'm glad someone is in agreement. I really wish we'd get back to > the actual code. Because if not, I do think perhaps PHP Internals as > outlived the email format and should migrate to a forum format. I think I > and many others did not subscribe to a mailing list for this type of > argument and at this point it is becoming hard to follow, assume you were > interested in it. > > > > This little link http://www.php.net/unsub.php to unsubscribe is the > last report, but if this all we're going to keep arguing about, it sure > isn't going to encourage newbies, let alone long-timers such as myself. > > > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 1:26 AM, Sascha Schumann < > sascha.schum...@myrasecurity.com> wrote: > > > On January 12, 2016 at 7:05 PM Adam Howard <oldschool...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > Can we please move on past this and get back to actual code. Because > if > > > not, perhaps PHP Internals has outgrown the email format and should > migrate > > > to a forum type format. > > > > Agreed. > > This is almost exactly the point I was trying to make. > > There is a serious problem with the conversation on internals, and the > immediate reaction is, “there’s no problem, this is a distraction, stop > talking about this and talk about something else”. > > Even if you didn’t *mean* that, that’s what was heard. > > > In one email, and one “me too” follow-up you’ve: > > * attempted to silence an important discussion > * suggested that that the opinion held (and François’ question) is not > worthy of discussion > * distracted the discussion with an unusable suggestion [* see below] > * provided nothing constructive to help actually solve the problem > * reinforced the notion that nothing is wrong and everything is fine. > > THIS is toxic internals. > > > Let me elaborate on the third point, particularly the distracted and > unusable bits: > > You make the assertion that this conversation is an indication that > php-internals has outgrown email and should migrate platforms. And you > propose an alternative. > > But you don’t explain *why* you think that this conversation has outgrown > email, and even more importantly, you don’t you don’t actually explain > *why* a forum format would be an improvement. > > I’m not saying that a forum *couldn’t* be an improvement. But without you > giving any supporting argument, you’ve given nothing concrete that anyone > can have a discussion about. It’s not actively helping to solve the > problem. It’s just more noise that serves to make people think their > comments don’t matter. (For the record: I don’t like forums. And I really > don’t see how forums would solve the culture problem. But me saying that, > and only that, is just as constructive as you saying only that we should > switch to one.) > > So, your suggestion is unusable, because it provides nothing constructive > or actionable; and it is a distraction because the platform we use to talk > is *entirely* irrelevant to how people hold conversations on that platform, > and rather than discussing the problem, you try to talk about something > completely unrelated instead. > > > I didn’t sign up for internals looking to deal with this either. But there > is a problem, and it is keeping me from actually contributing code. And > I’ve been sitting on the sidelines here for a *long* time. I’m trying to > make it so that newbies feel welcome to contribute. I’m trying to make it > so that the old-timers who have reduced their participation feel like they > can come back and be productive again. > > I would *love* to talk about code now. I wish we didn’t have to talk about > this. But silencing the conversation and wishing the problem away doesn’t > fix the the giant elephpant in the room. It just *makes it worse*. > > -John > >
