To be fair, "any piece can be plucked out and replaced without affecting anything else." if there is a rigidly defined interface and the replacement complies absolutely. Of course, IRL someone invariably gets "pragmatic" (i.e., sloppy) and the inevitable ensues. "Alpha testing? That's what end users are for."
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2020 5:31 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: New Jersey Pleas for COBOL Coders for Mainframes Amid Coronavirus Pandemic Today's programmers consider programs "throw-away" just like everything else. Hey also consider them multi-granular, where any piece can be plucked out and replaced without affecting anything else. This is derived from the OO programming model. (But, we know how models and real-world differ. Just look at how everyone over-optimized relational databases to the point of collapse. Sometimes 2NF, or even 1NF is better than 3NF for speed.) Talk to a younger programmer about a "system" of programs such as an "A/P batch job" and they just can't grasp it. It's not just the language not being taught, it's the "works with others" (as in my program with your program) that is foreign to the kids. Tony Thigpen Gerhard adam wrote on 4/5/20 4:12 PM: > > > > > COBOL is not taught because those that know it can make a much better > living using it than teaching college classes to people that believe it is > “dead” > Of course the latter opinion is stupid on the face of it. After all, how > does one replace systems that are not understood? From scratch? LOL > > > > Get Outlook for iOS > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 1:07 PM -0700, "Steve Thompson" <ste...@copper.net> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I have asked and been told that various universities do not teach languages, > they teach theory. So the students learn an object oriented language such as > C++ or Java online(?). > > The statements made and questions asked of/by contract programmers (off > shore) relative to COBOL — I believe it. > > Sent from my iPhone — small keyboarf, fat fungrs, stupd spell manglr. Expct > mistaks > > >> On Apr 5, 2020, at 3:09 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: >> >> Says here "COBOL is a dead language that hasn't been taught in most >> universities for decades, and the rare COBOL coders command anywhere from >> $55 to $85 an hour". >> >> I'm reminded that five or ten years ago one of my sons heard my standard >> rant #37 about mainframes, and thought maybe he should learn to work with >> them (thinking it might lead to job security, in which I imagine he was not >> entirely wrong). For a few weeks I called around trying to find out what it >> would cost me to rent space for two accounts on an IBM mainframe somewhere. >> My questions must have been repeated here and there, for eventually an IBM >> guy called me and said if I could get the local university to teach a few >> courses on mainframes, they'd have to rent space on a mainframe for the >> students and IBM would ~give~ me two accounts so I could teach my son. I >> did call one of the local universities, one I'd worked at for two years, but >> couldn't drum up any interest. >> >> The IBM guy also said that companies were getting so desperate for mainframe >> trainees that they were sponsoring college courses their own selves, just so >> they'd have someone they could hire later. >> >> COBOL is by no means a "dead language", in any practical sense, but >> apparently the writer got it right that it isn't being taught in schools. >> >> Dunno about 55 to 85 $/hr, though, unless things have gotten a lot worse >> since I got into the security side. >> >> --- >> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >> >> /* D'you call life a bad job? Never! We've had our ups and downs, we've >> had our struggles, we've always been poor, but it's been worth it, ay, worth >> it a hundred times I say when I look 'round at my children. -from _Of Human >> Bondage_ by W Somerset Maugham */ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Phil Smith III >> Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2020 10:23 >> >> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1X7kY61h_eEnzKGqA-_zK-cXpeeNt3TaxOONP5UwnTWtZr9WFp14ma572jdSyxXvzzU7F1Tpx6MOBdzRE_jf0NZf_CM7PHLQVIVrZNg1c7mqMZeaJnsQi5qjEhomwN6xXB2Qb_wmKP4Sue9sEm7VgXs2zPHdfB_GitXOj_NuwXZ7xJDnltSZWsa0E5UvQJ5tc5ZG83cOTfsfF81kb-WrcPCwBUVIe-viXWjkFkdekarBAWMHSKWPy7L-Z465kZEDD4EgVmkGhajE-rXma6k9JzitXYdBUIo-yAWLmnk3WvI-68w-L5W3O4SSS8xdR487oN7X2GaAAZ3DzXrD0uRhb94uo-iCUzBMjZjYkpJx1Nr3MjhqgiBnJHDmuMZ3avnfh8P95E9d7j4x1_AckCHrSdom8dJSeXPvwvqSpcEQV5c67TpPdgM7lL-6akEFk1XwPCyp98HsGI_aavKdb91WLOw/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tomshardware.com%2Fnews%2Fnew-jersey-cobol-coders-mainframes-coronav > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
