On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 12:55, Gunnar Morling <gun...@hibernate.org> wrote: > > Does anyone know whether/how I could export all my existing chat logs > from HipChat? I'd like to keep a copy esp. of all 1:1 chats I had, if > that's possible.
Copy & Paste ? Such a powerful tool :) If you're really lazy you could file a GDPR demand for your data.. > > Thanks for any hints, > > --Gunnar > > Am Do., 6. Dez. 2018 um 17:03 Uhr schrieb Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org>: > > > > > Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we > > > never decided we're migrating to Gitter. > > > > Sure. What I meant was that we are *de facto* done migrating to gitter. Not > > that we meant it, but almost everyone is there already and almost no one is > > on HipChat. > > > > I wouldn't expect important matters to be discussed on Gitter, but then > > again I seem to remember someone (who was that? ;) ) telling me to use the > > mailing list, and not HipChat, for important matters. So, you should be > > fine. > > > > That being said, even if the decision to migrate was not made, we will have > > to make it at some point. So if you want something else, I'd be happy to > > hear about that :) > > > > Yoann Rodière > > Hibernate NoORM Team > > yo...@hibernate.org > > > > > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 16:16, Steve Ebersole <st...@hibernate.org> wrote: > > > > > I am never on HipChat at this point. So don't expect any important > > > matters to be discussed there ;) > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:08 AM Sanne Grinovero <sa...@hibernate.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:25, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter > > >> is a > > >> > new line in your message > > >> > > > >> > There's a checkbox to change that, and its value is persisted, so you > > >> only > > >> > have to tick it once. It's located just beside the "Send" button, I'm > > >> sure > > >> > you saw it :) > > >> > But apart from that, yes, I agree it's not very user-friendly. It's > > >> > more > > >> > about the user getting used to the tool than the tool being made > > >> > obvious > > >> > from the start. > > >> > > > >> > I'm also unsure how long Gitter will continue to be maintained, and how > > >> > well it will be. But we're mostly done migrating to Gitter; I don't see > > >> > much activity on HipChat anymore. > > >> > > >> Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we > > >> never decided we're migrating to Gitter. > > >> > > >> I'm certainly not on Gitter regularly nor right now, so I'm expecting > > >> any important matter to be discussed on mailing lists or HipChat. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Objectively, and regardless of my preferred tool, the main drawback I > > >> can > > >> > see about not moving to Zulip (or another tool) now, but only later, is > > >> the > > >> > confusion it will potentially create for users: we were on HipChat, > > >> > announced we were moving to Gitter and changed the links on our > > >> > website, > > >> > and a few months later we move again. That is, I think, something we > > >> want > > >> > to avoid. > > >> > > > >> > So the question really is: is Gitter the right tool for us, and do we > > >> trust > > >> > it to stay the right tool for us long enough (say, at least a couple of > > >> > years)? > > >> > > > >> > Yoann Rodière > > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> > yo...@hibernate.org > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:41, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.s...@gmail.com> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > So, I'm using Zulip right now on a daily basis. > > >> > > > > >> > > I maintain my first impression that it's really not user friendly. > > >> > > > > >> > > The fact that you are required to create topics for discussions (or > > >> find a > > >> > > suitable topic in a list of a gazillion topics previously created, > > >> > > obviously without a search engine where you need it - you have a > > >> global one > > >> > > at the top where you can find topics) is a pain. You also need to use > > >> > > ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in your > > >> > > message. The UI is not very good and I don't see any improvement > > >> since the > > >> > > last time I tested it so I'm wondering if they are investing in it. > > >> > > > > >> > > We could decide to use it as a dev team as I suppose we would get > > >> used to > > >> > > it, but I seriously don't think it's a good alternative for our users > > >> to > > >> > > occasionally come chat with us. > > >> > > > > >> > > As for Gitter, I agree with the notification issue, the web client is > > >> all > > >> > > buggy. Haven't tested the desktop client yet. > > >> > > > > >> > > I must admit that I prefer using Gitter. Probably until I get bitten > > >> by > > >> > > the 1-1 history issue :). > > >> > > > > >> > > From what I can see, GitLab doesn't invest much in Gitter either so I > > >> > > wonder if it's gonna be viable in the long term. > > >> > > > > >> > > I suppose we'll see. > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > Guillaume > > >> > > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip seems > > >> to be > > >> > >> the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history, and > > >> allows > > >> > >> unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at least). > > >> Gitter > > >> > >> has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25 people > > >> per > > >> > >> private room. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> You can join them here: https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/ > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the > > >> decommissioning > > >> > >> of > > >> > >> HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong reason > > >> to > > >> > >> keep looking for another solution? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in particular > > >> with > > >> > >> notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop client > > >> > >> everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does the job. > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Yoann Rodière > > >> > >> Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> > >> yo...@hibernate.org > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > > >> wrote: > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private > > >> room, > > >> > >> > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the > > >> chat > > >> > >> > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we > > >> can > > >> > >> only > > >> > >> > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is > > >> in > > >> > >> rooms. > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the > > >> very > > >> > >> > limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating > > >> Zulip, > > >> > >> > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they > > >> end > > >> > >> up > > >> > >> > choosing and why? > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > Yoann Rodière > > >> > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> > >> > yo...@hibernate.org > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> wrote: > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> wrote: > > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > > >> might be > > >> > >> >>> too successful as well > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think > > >> > >> forcing > > >> > >> >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I > > >> can't > > >> > >> suggest > > >> > >> >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links > > >> > >> (documentation, > > >> > >> >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that > > >> could > > >> > >> be > > >> > >> >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic > > >> > >> >>> becomes > > >> > >> >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" > > >> (but that > > >> > >> >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or > > >> making > > >> > >> the > > >> > >> >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in > > >> > >> >>> a > > >> > >> while > > >> > >> >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while > > >> > >> offline). > > >> > >> >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed > > >> to > > >> > >> use > > >> > >> >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was > > >> > >> "allow > > >> > >> >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows > > >> to > > >> > >> read > > >> > >> >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary > > >> > >> >>> in > > >> > >> order to > > >> > >> >>> start posting new messages. > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> Yoann Rodière > > >> > >> >>> Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> > >> >>> yo...@hibernate.org > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole < > > >> st...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> >>> wrote: > > >> > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More > > >> just > > >> > >> >>>> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use > > >> Gitter, > > >> > >> that's > > >> > >> >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow > > >> anonymous", > > >> > >> which > > >> > >> >>>> I wanted to avoid. > > >> > >> >>>> > > >> > >> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero < > > >> > >> sa...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> >>>> wrote: > > >> > >> >>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere < > > >> yo...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > > >> > >> >>>>> > > > >> > >> >>>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub > > >> account, > > >> > >> >>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> Ok. > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > > > >> > >> >>>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's > > >> > >> relevant. > > >> > >> >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are > > >> likely > > >> > >> to not > > >> > >> >>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software > > >> > >> >>>>> extremists) > > >> > >> rather than > > >> > >> >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" > > >> naming > > >> > >> might > > >> > >> >>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I > > >> doubt > > >> > >> my > > >> > >> >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my > > >> non-software-engineer > > >> > >> of a > > >> > >> >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a > > >> different > > >> > >> way > > >> > >> >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in > > >> > >> technology > > >> > >> >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some > > >> > >> research > > >> > >> >>>>> before bothering us all. > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard > > >> times in > > >> > >> >>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many > > >> > >> >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that > > >> could > > >> > >> be > > >> > >> >>>>> easily solved otherwise. > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of > > >> course > > >> > >> I > > >> > >> >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just > > >> people > > >> > >> >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm > > >> confident > > >> > >> that > > >> > >> >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity > > >> (e.g. > > >> > >> >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > > >> might be > > >> > >> >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a > > >> very > > >> > >> >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > > > >> > >> >>>>> > > > >> > >> >>>>> > Yoann Rodière > > >> > >> >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > > >> > >> >>>>> > yo...@hibernate.org > > >> > >> >>>>> > > > >> > >> >>>>> > > > >> > >> >>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero < > > >> > >> sa...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole < > > >> > >> st...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub > > >> account > > >> > >> >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option > > >> in the > > >> > >> room's > > >> > >> >>>>> settings also. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment > > >> > >> >>>>> >> in > > >> > >> 2014.. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like > > >> > >> that, I > > >> > >> >>>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type > > >> of > > >> > >> people > > >> > >> >>>>> >> to join. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> Thanks, > > >> > >> >>>>> >> Sanne > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < > > >> > >> >>>>> guillaume.s...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < > > >> > >> >>>>> sa...@hibernate.org> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> wrote: > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack > > >> is > > >> > >> the > > >> > >> >>>>> way to > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that > > >> we'll need > > >> > >> >>>>> to be > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > if > > >> > >> that's > > >> > >> >>>>> not > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for > > >> me > > >> > >> but > > >> > >> >>>>> yeah not > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if > > >> you > > >> > >> ping > > >> > >> >>>>> me :). > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > clients > > >> > >> don't > > >> > >> >>>>> have > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my > > >> > >> >>>>> interactions with > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> people. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb > > >> (and not > > >> > >> >>>>> very excited > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> about compiling it). > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on > > >> it if > > >> > >> >>>>> they want to > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some > > >> work to > > >> > >> >>>>> do to catch > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> up with others. > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> -- > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> Guillaume > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > >> > >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > >> > >> >>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> > >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > >> > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > > >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > hibernate-dev mailing list > > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
