Does anyone know whether/how I could export all my existing chat logs from HipChat? I'd like to keep a copy esp. of all 1:1 chats I had, if that's possible.
Thanks for any hints, --Gunnar Am Do., 6. Dez. 2018 um 17:03 Uhr schrieb Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org>: > > > Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we > > never decided we're migrating to Gitter. > > Sure. What I meant was that we are *de facto* done migrating to gitter. Not > that we meant it, but almost everyone is there already and almost no one is > on HipChat. > > I wouldn't expect important matters to be discussed on Gitter, but then > again I seem to remember someone (who was that? ;) ) telling me to use the > mailing list, and not HipChat, for important matters. So, you should be > fine. > > That being said, even if the decision to migrate was not made, we will have > to make it at some point. So if you want something else, I'd be happy to > hear about that :) > > Yoann Rodière > Hibernate NoORM Team > yo...@hibernate.org > > > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 16:16, Steve Ebersole <st...@hibernate.org> wrote: > > > I am never on HipChat at this point. So don't expect any important > > matters to be discussed there ;) > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 9:08 AM Sanne Grinovero <sa...@hibernate.org> > > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:25, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > > You also need to use ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter > >> is a > >> > new line in your message > >> > > >> > There's a checkbox to change that, and its value is persisted, so you > >> only > >> > have to tick it once. It's located just beside the "Send" button, I'm > >> sure > >> > you saw it :) > >> > But apart from that, yes, I agree it's not very user-friendly. It's more > >> > about the user getting used to the tool than the tool being made obvious > >> > from the start. > >> > > >> > I'm also unsure how long Gitter will continue to be maintained, and how > >> > well it will be. But we're mostly done migrating to Gitter; I don't see > >> > much activity on HipChat anymore. > >> > >> Hey wait a second :) You invited us to try Gitter. That's fine but we > >> never decided we're migrating to Gitter. > >> > >> I'm certainly not on Gitter regularly nor right now, so I'm expecting > >> any important matter to be discussed on mailing lists or HipChat. > >> > >> > > >> > Objectively, and regardless of my preferred tool, the main drawback I > >> can > >> > see about not moving to Zulip (or another tool) now, but only later, is > >> the > >> > confusion it will potentially create for users: we were on HipChat, > >> > announced we were moving to Gitter and changed the links on our website, > >> > and a few months later we move again. That is, I think, something we > >> want > >> > to avoid. > >> > > >> > So the question really is: is Gitter the right tool for us, and do we > >> trust > >> > it to stay the right tool for us long enough (say, at least a couple of > >> > years)? > >> > > >> > Yoann Rodière > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > yo...@hibernate.org > >> > > >> > > >> > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:41, Guillaume Smet <guillaume.s...@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > So, I'm using Zulip right now on a daily basis. > >> > > > >> > > I maintain my first impression that it's really not user friendly. > >> > > > >> > > The fact that you are required to create topics for discussions (or > >> find a > >> > > suitable topic in a list of a gazillion topics previously created, > >> > > obviously without a search engine where you need it - you have a > >> global one > >> > > at the top where you can find topics) is a pain. You also need to use > >> > > ctrl+enter to send a message, the default enter is a new line in your > >> > > message. The UI is not very good and I don't see any improvement > >> since the > >> > > last time I tested it so I'm wondering if they are investing in it. > >> > > > >> > > We could decide to use it as a dev team as I suppose we would get > >> used to > >> > > it, but I seriously don't think it's a good alternative for our users > >> to > >> > > occasionally come chat with us. > >> > > > >> > > As for Gitter, I agree with the notification issue, the web client is > >> all > >> > > buggy. Haven't tested the desktop client yet. > >> > > > >> > > I must admit that I prefer using Gitter. Probably until I get bitten > >> by > >> > > the 1-1 history issue :). > >> > > > >> > > From what I can see, GitLab doesn't invest much in Gitter either so I > >> > > wonder if it's gonna be viable in the long term. > >> > > > >> > > I suppose we'll see. > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > Guillaume > >> > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:58 AM Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> The WildFly team is moving from Slack to Zulip, because Zulip seems > >> to be > >> > >> the only solution that is free, provides unlimited history, and > >> allows > >> > >> unlimited users even in private rooms (for OSS projects, at least). > >> Gitter > >> > >> has all that, except unlimited users, as we are limited to 25 people > >> per > >> > >> private room. > >> > >> > >> > >> You can join them here: https://wildfly.zulipchat.com/ > >> > >> > >> > >> Back to our solution... We are now 71 days away from the > >> decommissioning > >> > >> of > >> > >> HipChat. *Is everyone happy with Gitter?* Do you see a strong reason > >> to > >> > >> keep looking for another solution? > >> > >> > >> > >> For my part, I noticed problems with the web client, in particular > >> with > >> > >> notifications, which are sub-standard, but with the desktop client > >> > >> everything seems to work fine. It's simple, but it does the job. > >> > >> > >> > >> Yoann Rodière > >> > >> Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> yo...@hibernate.org > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 at 14:40, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > On top of not being able to add more than 25 people to a private > >> room, > >> > >> > there's another limitation of Gitter that Fabio just noticed: the > >> chat > >> > >> > history for 1-to-1 conversations is very limited. In our case, we > >> can > >> > >> only > >> > >> > see 2 days back, and there's no concept of archives like there is > >> in > >> > >> rooms. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Meanwhile, the WildFly team is giving up on Slack because of the > >> very > >> > >> > limited size of history in free plans. They are investigating > >> Zulip, > >> > >> > RocketChat and MatterMost in particular. Maybe let's see what they > >> end > >> > >> up > >> > >> > choosing and why? > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Yoann Rodière > >> > >> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> > yo...@hibernate.org > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 11:33, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 at 08:49, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >> > >> > >> >>> > Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > >> might be > >> > >> >>> too successful as well > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> Ok. Well, I guess we'll see. As I mentioned above, I don't think > >> > >> forcing > >> > >> >>> people to have a GitHub account will be very effective, but I > >> can't > >> > >> suggest > >> > >> >>> a perfect solution either. Bots answering with a few links > >> > >> (documentation, > >> > >> >>> etc.) to the first message of each user come to mind, but that > >> could > >> > >> be > >> > >> >>> considered rude, so I wouldn't do that unless the traffic becomes > >> > >> >>> unmanageable. Other solutions include kicking out "spammers" > >> (but that > >> > >> >>> doesn't work if it's many users asking a single question), or > >> making > >> > >> the > >> > >> >>> -dev rooms invite-only and only checking the user rooms once in a > >> > >> while > >> > >> >>> (might work if Gitter sends emails when your are mentioned while > >> > >> offline). > >> > >> >>> So, yeah, in short: I don't really know. > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > More just accountability. But if some form of login in needed > >> to > >> > >> use > >> > >> >>> Gitter, that's enough for me. Sounded like the other option was > >> > >> "allow > >> > >> >>> anonymous", which I wanted to avoid. > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> Then it should be fine: anonymous access apparently only allows > >> to > >> > >> read > >> > >> >>> messages. Login through GitLab, GitHub or Twitter is necessary in > >> > >> order to > >> > >> >>> start posting new messages. > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> Yoann Rodière > >> > >> >>> Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> >>> yo...@hibernate.org > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 19:34, Steve Ebersole < > >> st...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> >>> wrote: > >> > >> >>> > >> > >> >>>> For me its not so much about "the right kind of people". More > >> just > >> > >> >>>> accountability. But if some form of login in needed to use > >> Gitter, > >> > >> that's > >> > >> >>>> enough for me. Sounded like the other option was "allow > >> anonymous", > >> > >> which > >> > >> >>>> I wanted to avoid. > >> > >> >>>> > >> > >> >>>> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM Sanne Grinovero < > >> > >> sa...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> >>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>> > >> > >> >>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 17:27, Yoann Rodiere < > >> yo...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > I don't see why we should force people to have a GitHub > >> account, > >> > >> >>>>> considering there are other means of logging into Gitter. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Ok. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > As to getting the right type of people, I'm not sure it's > >> > >> relevant. > >> > >> >>>>> Most people are likely to have one, and those who don't are > >> likely > >> > >> to not > >> > >> >>>>> have one for political reasons (think free software extremists) > >> > >> rather than > >> > >> >>>>> because they aren't tech savvy enough: while the "hibernate" > >> naming > >> > >> might > >> > >> >>>>> confuse users looking for information about grizzly bears, I > >> doubt > >> > >> my > >> > >> >>>>> grandmother, my 7-year-old nephew or even my > >> non-software-engineer > >> > >> of a > >> > >> >>>>> wife would end up on Gitter by mistake. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Well since that's obvious, clearly I was referring to a > >> different > >> > >> way > >> > >> >>>>> of cathegorizing people joining@ not by age or expertise in > >> > >> technology > >> > >> >>>>> but in having reasonable expectations and willing to do some > >> > >> research > >> > >> >>>>> before bothering us all. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> You probably weren't around yet, but Hibernate has had hard > >> times in > >> > >> >>>>> which it was "victim of its own success": just too many > >> > >> >>>>> kinda-interested people making a ton of basic questions that > >> could > >> > >> be > >> > >> >>>>> easily solved otherwise. > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Some "barriers" we have in place have made it manageable; of > >> course > >> > >> I > >> > >> >>>>> can't tell if it's all merit of the barriers of entry or just > >> people > >> > >> >>>>> coming in lower volumes with better intentions, but I'm > >> confident > >> > >> that > >> > >> >>>>> some of the barriers we have have helped to keep some sanity > >> (e.g. > >> > >> >>>>> login on #hibernate-dev on IRC requiring an account). > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> Assuming the new chat platform takes off, there's a risk it > >> might be > >> > >> >>>>> too successful as well. But I guess we'll see, or let's use a > >> very > >> > >> >>>>> bad chat platform so to keep people from coming :P > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > Yoann Rodière > >> > >> >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team > >> > >> >>>>> > yo...@hibernate.org > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > > >> > >> >>>>> > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 18:02, Sanne Grinovero < > >> > >> sa...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 at 16:02, Steve Ebersole < > >> > >> st...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > What is it a conscious decision to not require a GitHub > >> account > >> > >> >>>>> to join these rooms? I just noticed that is a toggle-option > >> in the > >> > >> room's > >> > >> >>>>> settings also. > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> I don't remember. We created these rooms as an experiment in > >> > >> 2014.. > >> > >> >>>>> >> Yoann created some more rooms recently. > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> Should we enforce people to have a Github account? I'd like > >> > >> that, I > >> > >> >>>>> >> think it would better nudge towards getting the right type > >> of > >> > >> people > >> > >> >>>>> >> to join. > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> Thanks, > >> > >> >>>>> >> Sanne > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:17 AM Guillaume Smet < > >> > >> >>>>> guillaume.s...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 11:35 AM Sanne Grinovero < > >> > >> >>>>> sa...@hibernate.org> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> wrote: > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > If one wants a lot of features then clearly only Slack > >> is > >> > >> the > >> > >> >>>>> way to > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > go. Not saying we should go with Slack, just that > >> we'll need > >> > >> >>>>> to be > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > patient and we'll always be short of some features - if > >> > >> that's > >> > >> >>>>> not > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > acceptable then only Slack will make you happy. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> TBH, I don't care about fancy features. Gitter is OK for > >> me > >> > >> but > >> > >> >>>>> yeah not > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> having sound is really annoying. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I might miss notifications from time to time. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> In any case, it will mostly be a problem for you all if > >> you > >> > >> ping > >> > >> >>>>> me :). > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > BTW the issue you linked to suggests the native clients > >> > >> don't > >> > >> >>>>> have > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > this specific problem.. might want to try that? > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> I prefer to have it in the browser where I do most of my > >> > >> >>>>> interactions with > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> people. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> And AFAIK, Yoann wrote they were only packaged as deb > >> (and not > >> > >> >>>>> very excited > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> about compiling it). > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> BTW, tbh, I'm a bit worried GitLab has only one dev on > >> it if > >> > >> >>>>> they want to > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> become a player in this area. They certainly have some > >> work to > >> > >> >>>>> do to catch > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> up with others. > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> -- > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> Guillaume > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > >> > >> >>>>> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > >> >>>>> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > >> > >> >>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> >>>>> > >> > >> >>>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > >> > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > hibernate-dev mailing list > >> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > >> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> hibernate-dev mailing list > >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > hibernate-dev mailing list > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
