Hello Viktor, I understand these limitations Viktor. I have some thoughts but need more time to see if they are worth mentioning.
One thing is for sure. Its unthinkable that we as xHarbour.com just "give away" a investment of +$38,000. I'm sure you can understand. I was just giving you guys some input of what's possible with xHDN. Please give me some time to think it all through. If you, or anyone else has more ideas, please let us know. Patrick > Some more thoughts on the doc topic. > After thinking about it, I see not much point at all to ask for > *any actual amount of money* from the "Harbour community". > And the reason is very simple: There is no such entity as the > "Harbour community" as a payer. What I mean: If you say you > want N dollars for the docs as compensation, what can the > "Harbour community" do? Let's see: > - I for example could do nothing, since I'm not willing to pay > a dime for Harbour, for me it was enough to contribute several man-years > on this project for free, so even paying for it would be rather odd, > (especially if we consider that I personally don't need the > documentation, but this is generally irrelevant). > I don't know, just guess, that few other core developers may think > the same. > Maybe some Harbour-Project individuals could and would pay for the > docs though, but I have some doubts that would reach USD 30000. Of > course there is a chance, but not very high. > - What we could do as "Harbour-Project". We are not one entity, thus > we don't have a bank account or box of cash, so whatever the amount > is, all we can do is to start gathering money via PayPal f.e.. wait > until it reaches USD 30000 (we should check the legal side here, like > taxation), transfer the money to you as one amount. The audience here > is limited and we cannot be sure how much time will it take. > - What could the *whole* "Harbour community" do. Well, same applies > as above, but the audience is larger. With this part we (as > "Harbour-Project") > cannot do much, as we cannot reach f.e. xhb users, plus a lot of other > users who frequent other places. In this case we can contribute, but > it's a wider project. > So, to conclude from the above, you are asking for compensation at > the wrong place. > The only thing *we* could do is starting a campaign to gather money > to compensate your company for the docs. Now, this could be > equally done by you, or it could be done by both of us together as > a joint campaign. I'd think this latter would be the most effective. > Since you have the rights for the docs, money should probably > flow directly to some PayPal account of yours, and you can decide > whether to: > 1) publish the docs in advance. > 2) wait until a certain amount of money reaches your account and publish > then. > 3) wait until the amount of money reaches your proposal of 80% and publish > then. > With 2) and 3) there is a chance that money won't reach that certain > amount you feel okay, or reach it gradually by time. This wouldn't be > very nice for the (x)Harbour users, since they still get no documentation > in return of their donations, some may even feel cheated. > On the other hand, there is no limit on the amount you can collect, > so, it's also possible you will eventually get more than your originally > anticipated amount. > For above two reasons, IMO the best choice would be 1). This would > practically mean that all supporter parties (xhb.com, xhb.org, > harbour-project.org, plus everyone else wanting to participate) add > your PayPal button to their homepages and you publish the doc > sources right away. > Just ideas. > Brgds, > Viktor > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Viktor Szakáts <harbour...@syenar.hu> > wrote: >> >> Hi Patrick, >> >> To me it seems strange to push most of the costs of this >> business investment to "Harbour community", considering that >> it created sales, income and profit for your company >> along the years. I don't know, just guess that it wasn't >> a totally dead investment, which created a full $38800 loss >> for you. I hope not. >> >> We shouldn't forget that lots of developers were and are >> working on Harbour for free, which again creates sales, >> income and profit for your company. This isn't appearing >> as a figure anywhere, but is probably a much higher amount >> than the cost of this documentation, even if you take >> a fraction of this figure, it's still a considerable >> contribution for the benefit (in actual $) of your company. >> >> Also I just can guess, that you meant Harbour+xHarbour >> community, otherwise I even less understand the offer. >> >From you e-mail it wasn't clear that you want a joined >> doc effort afterwards, or just pass a copy to the free >> Harbour Project (and its free users) for that amount. >> >> I still hold my opinion, that unless your business with >> the docs was a total loss, you should share your docs for >> free or some *much more realistic amount*, and we can >> continue to build it together for the benefit of all >> xHarbour and Harbour users. >> >> This would be an important step. >> >> Brgds, >> Viktor >> >> On 2009.06.24., at 19:32, Patrick Mast wrote: >> >>> Hello Viktor, >>> >>>> I was happy to see you jumping to the thread, but when I saw >>>> the 80% figure and that it should be paid to xhb project, I got >>>> a little bit surprised. >>> >>> Oops, why is that? I mean, its the same a saying, "hey guys, we, >>> xHarbour.com will sponsor 20% of the cost for writing the docs". No? >>> >>>> I would think it would be much more fair for the authors and >>>> for our users to compensate *Hannes* with this or the original >>>> amount (which is only extra 20%) for a documentation specifically >>>> crafted for Harbour. >>> >>> I'm sorry I don't understand. What I wanted to says is exactly that. >>> Compensate 80% of what we paid Hannes to do the Job. There is no >>> financial gain here for xHarbour.com. In this construction, >>> xHarbour.com still pays 20% of the total amount, remember? ;-) >>> >>>> In case we'd be using this doc as a base, >>>> we'd most probably need his help to make corrections and >>>> additions anyway. For solely passing the doc rights to Harbour >>>> community this figure is way too high. >>> >>> I can't decide on that. I can just tell you guys what it the cost was >>> for US to write the docs. >>> >>>> So my personal opinion is that this construct in this way >>>> is nothing more than getting (an IMO non-fair share amount >>>> of) money by xhb from Harbour developers / users. >>> >>> Sorry, I don't understand why you think this. Can you clarify? >>> >>>> Moreover we'd be paying for the "middleman", not the author, >>>> which means this money would not be spend on any actual >>>> documentation writing, just (almost fully) compensate for a >>>> business investment. >>> >>> Not correct. You guys compensate exact what we paid Hannes, that is, >>> 80% of it in this proposal. >>> >>>> Probably a zero amount to share rights would be a generous >>>> amount to offer for the whole xhb/Harbour community then >>>> sharing extra expenses to get the documentation updated to >>>> the development of latest years. This way it could be also >>>> guaranteed that the docs would be usable for both products, >>>> all differences documented properly. >>> >>> Viktor, please, read this again. "zero amount to share rights" ;-))) >>> So, you ask us to GIVE away our investment to Harbour?? Remember we >>> invested +$38,000.00 USD in this documentation project. >>> >>>> My 2 cents. >>> >>> Thank you for your personal view Victor ;-) >>> >>> Patrick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Harbour mailing list >>> Harbour@harbour-project.org >>> http://lists.harbour-project.org/mailman/listinfo/harbour >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Harbour mailing list > Harbour@harbour-project.org > http://lists.harbour-project.org/mailman/listinfo/harbour > > _______________________________________________ Harbour mailing list Harbour@harbour-project.org http://lists.harbour-project.org/mailman/listinfo/harbour
