Dr Leopoldo da Rocha's work on the *confrarias* is here: https://www.scribd.com/document/116619605/Leopoldo-Da-Rocha-as-Confrarias-de-Goa-Seculos-Xvi-Xx
Pe. Gabriel Saldanha's* Historia de Goa* may be quite forgotten in Goa itself, but is available online here: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.32055 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.32056 Note: It can sometimes be tough to access the Internet Achieve from Goa or other parts of India. FN On Tuesday, 8 July 2025 at 23:01:11 UTC+5:30 Sonia Gomes wrote: > Sorry: Nothing more to say. Both Pe. Gabriel Saldanha as well as Dr. > Leopoldo da Rocha wrote in Portuguese. As far as I know, there are no > translations in English. > So who has done this insightful analyses of both their books? Thank you > very much. I appreciate your thoughts but I have no desire to get into any > arguments with you Frederico. Thank you very much. > Sonia do Rosario Gomes > > On Tue, 8 Jul, 2025, 10:18 pm Sonia Gomes, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Nothing to say >> >> On Tue, 8 Jul, 2025, 9:27 pm Tino de Sa, <[email protected]> wrote: >> > FN - a first class summary of the critical points to bear in mind while >>> making a historical assessment of the Inquisition. >>> Ignorance about what the Inquisition meant, and the legal framework >>> under which it operated is colossal, even among Catholics. >>> The current trend to see the Inquisition as an instrument of >>> 'conversion' is laughable. In fact, the reverse is probably true: since the >>> Inquisition extended only to those who had been baptised, and not to >>> non-Christians (except in very special cases, where a non-Christian was >>> found to be actively engaged in opposing it), the Inquisition probably >>> *dissuaded >>> *many from accepting baptism, lest they come under its mandate! So >>> while it brought about severe travails for Christians, both 'old' and >>> 'new', it certainly had nothing to do with furthering conversions of >>> non-Christians to Christianity! >>> Tino de Sa >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 8, 2025 at 8:28 PM fredericknoronha <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Not all repression in Portuguese Goa was the Inquisition (and not all >>>> of the Portuguese rule was repression alone). Actually, the Goa >>>> Inquisition was a formal institution of the Catholic Church, focussed >>>> primarily on religious orthodoxy, targetting mainly "New Christians" >>>> (converted Jews and Muslims suspected of continuing their own faith) and >>>> converts who were accused of relapsing in their beliefs. Hindus living >>>> under Portuguese rule were not subject to the Inquisition. It tried (i) >>>> Converts for "relapsing" to their old practices (ii) "Crypto" Jews and >>>> Muslims (iii) Europeans or missionaries suspected of "heretical beliefs". >>>> >>>> Confiscation of native lands was a colonial strategy, not an >>>> Inquisition doctrine. This was common among colonial regimes worldwide, >>>> including Mughal and British Indian. We see new forms of it at play in >>>> our >>>> times too. Likewise, regulation of dress and festivals was more about >>>> control, not just religion. This continued after the Inquisition was >>>> abolished, and was not unique to it. >>>> >>>> The so-called *Orfãos do Estado* ("State Orphans") was a broader >>>> colonial policy, part of the Iberian colonial idea of "civilising" >>>> non-Christians. The aim was to assimilate them into Portuguese-Christian >>>> society, while ignoring the wishes of surviving kin. Of course, this is >>>> deeply problematic, but it is distinct from the Inquisition's judicial >>>> role >>>> of trying cases of what it saw as heresy and apostasy. >>>> >>>> Pe. Gabriel Saldanha and Dr Leopoldo da Rocha have left us valuable >>>> writing; but they need to be read in context. Saldanha was a Catholic >>>> priest and historian of the late 19th and early 20th centuries; his >>>> accounts need to be seen against his own biases and the framework of that >>>> era. Dr Rocha wrote at a time where anti-clericalism and secular >>>> nationalism were on the rise in Goa, and his critiques could reflect that. >>>> >>>> In a word: we should be careful not to collapse all colonial oppression >>>> under the "Inquisition" umbrella. It has been convenient short-hand for a >>>> lot many things for some time now. FN >>>> >>>> On Monday, 7 July 2025 at 15:16:32 UTC+5:30 Sonia Gomes wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am reading Pe. Gabriel Saldanha and a great many times, he mentions >>>>> about fields as well as coconut groves removed from the possession of >>>>> Hindus and donated to convents and churches for their upkeep. Also Dr. >>>>> Leopoldo da Rocha mentions in a monograph of various strictures passed >>>>> against various festivities and the personal lives of the Hindus. Even >>>>> clothes. Now considering the disruption of lives, the loss of property, >>>>> bought by so many Catholics at throw away prices, would this be a part of >>>>> the Inquisition? And the kidnapping of orfãos from the Hindu families to >>>>> be >>>>> handed over to the Pai dos Cristãos for conversion to Catholics even if >>>>> there were Hindu families willing to bring them up as Hindus. Which part >>>>> of >>>>> Inquisition is this? Or does the Inquisition only deal with torture and >>>>> Autos de fé? Dr. Pacheco de Figueiredo would like your opinion. Thank you >>>>> and much appreciated. >>>>> Sonia do Rosario Gomes >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 7 Jul, 2025, 12:52 am Tino de Sa, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This clarifies things, John. And seems to be a fair and accurate >>>>>> historical assessment. >>>>>> Tino >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 11:25 PM John de Figueiredo < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I was not referring to FN’s comment, I was referring to the >>>>>>> announcement of the lecture “The Jews of Goa under the Portuguese” by >>>>>>> Professor Shalya Weil. It says that “many Jews” were tried but Alan’s >>>>>>> research shows that only 15 were tried. The focus of the Inquisitors >>>>>>> was on >>>>>>> Christians, not on Jews or on Hindus. >>>>>>> Death by fire was not unusual those days. Before the establishment >>>>>>> of the Inquisition in Goa, several homosexuals were killed by fire, and >>>>>>> both Goan Christians and Hindus approved their killings. There was also >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> practice of “sati” (“suttee”). Thus being said, to disinter the remains >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> a person and burn them and to burn women who were old and poor are >>>>>>> horrific >>>>>>> displays of religious intolerance and most certainly contrary to the >>>>>>> teachings of Jesus of Nazareth under whose name those practices were >>>>>>> conducted.. Pyrard de Laval was probably right when he stated that the >>>>>>> practices of the Inquisition were excessive even for the standards of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> time. What Alan’s research shows is that those practices in Goa were >>>>>>> milder >>>>>>> than in Portugal. >>>>>>> John M. de Figueiredo >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2025, at 8:35 AM, Tino de Sa <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But John, that is exactly what FN said. The 'Jews' who were targeted >>>>>>> by the Inquisition were not because they were ethnic Jews, or Jews who >>>>>>> professed and practised the Jewish faith (these were discriminated >>>>>>> against, >>>>>>> but not subject to the Inquisition), but Jews who had converted to >>>>>>> Christianity, but were suspected of - as Christians - practising >>>>>>> rituals of >>>>>>> their former religion in secret. >>>>>>> Tino de Sa >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2025 at 4:39 AM John de Figueiredo < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This description of the activities of the Inquisition in Goa is >>>>>>>> misleading. Alan Machado (Prabhu) demonstrated on the basis of >>>>>>>> original >>>>>>>> documents that the primary targets of the Inquisition of Goa were not >>>>>>>> Jews, >>>>>>>> Hindus, and other Non-Christians unless they interfered with the >>>>>>>> workings >>>>>>>> of the Inquisition. The primary targets were Christians. As I noted in >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> articles on the practice of Ayurvedic Medicine in Goa, when Gabriel >>>>>>>> Dellon >>>>>>>> was in jail and pretended to be sick, the Inquisitors brought a Hindu >>>>>>>> physician to treat him. Machado (Prabhu) also demonstrated that the >>>>>>>> Inquisition in Goa was relatively mild compared to the ones in >>>>>>>> Portugal. >>>>>>>> The clear proof of this is the independent testimony of foreign >>>>>>>> travelers >>>>>>>> in the 16th and 17th centuries that there were several synagogues in >>>>>>>> Goa >>>>>>>> and Jews and Hindus were practicing their religion freely in Goa. >>>>>>>> There was >>>>>>>> even a Rua dos Judeus (Road of the Jews) in Old Goa (Velha Goa) which >>>>>>>> suggests that Jews were settled in Goa. Yet, as Machado (Prabhu) >>>>>>>> noted, the >>>>>>>> same fictions about the Inquisition of Goa get repeated over and over. >>>>>>>> John M. de Figueiredo >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 5, 2025, at 9:29 AM, Tino de Sa <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What a terrible pity that the lecture is not available on youtube! >>>>>>>> Or is it? >>>>>>>> Tino de Sa >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 5, 2025 at 5:27 PM William Robert Da Silva < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your explanation is too meagre in historical explanation. The Jews >>>>>>>>> and early Christians were in West-Coast India very early for trade, >>>>>>>>> continuing before and after the fall of Rome. Cosmas Indicopleustes >>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>> are examples of this and we need to explore more in these areas. What >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> done is Goa, Portugal is too meagre to bring out history. >>>>>>>>> William Robert Da Silva >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2025 at 12:07 AM fredericknoronha < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Shalva Weil >>>>>>>>>> *The Jews of Goa under the Portuguese* >>>>>>>>>> Thursday 3.07.2025 >>>>>>>>>> How to watch >>>>>>>>>> This lecture starts on 3 July at 5:00pm (UK). >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.lockdownuniversity.org/email_verifications/new> >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.lockdownuniversity.org/about/subscribe> >>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Please note this session will only be available to watch live.* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There may have been early settlement of Jews in Goa, but there >>>>>>>>>> certainly was a Jewish colony there under the Portuguese. However, >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> Portuguese set up an Inquisition in Goa and tried many Jews and >>>>>>>>>> conversos >>>>>>>>>> or New Christians. They kept alive Garcia de Orta (1501-68), the >>>>>>>>>> physician >>>>>>>>>> of the king and a famous botanist, but burned his sister on the >>>>>>>>>> stake. By >>>>>>>>>> the 18th century the community of Jews had disappeared but their >>>>>>>>>> memory >>>>>>>>>> lingered on in some families to this day. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.lockdownuniversity.org/lectures/2560-the-jews-of-goa-under-the-portuguese >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/01568723-9a2f-4dcb-b6c1-9e811bfa52f0n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/01568723-9a2f-4dcb-b6c1-9e811bfa52f0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2BvNr4%2BdyVUhzKkfbo5WQLNKe%3DZ_N6fm89iBKMkJwTzzDCQu6Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2BvNr4%2BdyVUhzKkfbo5WQLNKe%3DZ_N6fm89iBKMkJwTzzDCQu6Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> *Dr. Anthony de Sa, IAS (Retd), PhD**, FRICS, MPA (Harvard)* >>>>>>>> *Former Chief Secretary of Madhya Pradesh,* >>>>>>>> *Former Chairman, MP Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA)* >>>>>>>> *Mobile (WhatsApp): +91-9810981818 <+91%2098109%2081818>* >>>>>>>> *e-mail: [email protected]* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * [email protected]* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3Drhv2bLUcBY%2BxCE2K67uCxnFoh_wDg4Bcs1d5NpYFY7HAMg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3Drhv2bLUcBY%2BxCE2K67uCxnFoh_wDg4Bcs1d5NpYFY7HAMg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20433D3C-5FBF-43A2-95BB-6340A2ABD0BC%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20433D3C-5FBF-43A2-95BB-6340A2ABD0BC%40sbcglobal.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Dr. Anthony de Sa, IAS (Retd), PhD**, FRICS, MPA (Harvard)* >>>>>>> *Former Chief Secretary of Madhya Pradesh,* >>>>>>> *Former Chairman, MP Real Estate Regulatory Authority (RERA)* >>>>>>> *Mobile (WhatsApp): +91-9810981818 <+91%2098109%2081818>* >>>>>>> *e-mail: [email protected]* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * [email protected]* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3DrhvJASCK3zYcasRHkX_HC0QXo7o3wxS4DJVSW8m2-DqwGw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3DrhvJASCK3zYcasRHkX_HC0QXo7o3wxS4DJVSW8m2-DqwGw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/1F011779-E0DE-4E40-97CB-AFCC7AA962E3%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/1F011779-E0DE-4E40-97CB-AFCC7AA962E3%40sbcglobal.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3DrhtEHWf3JUXJz-UQNQY2zyAqbL9bEh7WBOp0VmY5UumEMg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3DrhtEHWf3JUXJz-UQNQY2zyAqbL9bEh7WBOp0VmY5UumEMg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/da4d55e7-df86-4452-bc79-f9e664a45df2n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/da4d55e7-df86-4452-bc79-f9e664a45df2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3Drhtit4y2iRXFxnACj6Ru7Y66GgAk54KnndBR0BO%3DuviE%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAPf%3Drhtit4y2iRXFxnACj6Ru7Y66GgAk54KnndBR0BO%3DuviE%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/53ff9487-f14f-4518-815d-65f587ce6a08n%40googlegroups.com.
