Ok, thanks.
2010/6/1 <j...@jsschmid.de>: > Hi Laco! > > Be patient, we are on it. More or less just a bit of text work left on the > final response. > > Regards, > Johannes > >> Hi Johannes >> >> As it is almost two weeks from your last email, I would like to ask >> whether you have come to any conclusion, or if not when do you think >> you will decide? >> >> Kind regards >> >> Laco >> >> On 18 May 2010 08:59, <j...@jsschmid.de> wrote: >>> Hi Marcel! >>> >>> Thanks for your answer. I disagree with some points but that's perfectly >>> ok. After rereading my mail it sounded a bit personal and I want to >>> apologies for that as that wasn't my intention. Also thanks for >>> summarizing the content of the slovak page. >>> >>> To all: The GTP coordination team is carefully discussing this matter >>> and >>> will decide soon whether we take any action and what that might be. In >>> the >>> meantime, unless you have something really new I don't think it's worth >>> to >>> extent this discussion further. >>> >>> So, everbody calm down a bit, do your work (that's actually what will >>> improve the translation status most) and you will hear from us. >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> Johannes >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:19:11AM +0200, Johannes Schmid wrote: >>>>> Hi! >>>>> >>>>> > That's true. But if you have users, it does not automatically mean >>>>> > you'll have bug reports. Yes, you'll get some of them but it is not >>>>> > clear if it would be enough. From the past I know most of >>>>> translation >>>>> > bugs we found were found during the translation update by >>>>> translators >>>>> or >>>>> > during the review. Our user base is far smaller than German or even >>>>> > Czech. >>>>> >>>>> Note that this is not about the major things (because they will be >>>>> resolved during review) but about some remaining issues where >>>>> translators might have had a wrong thought. And people file more bug >>>>> reports than you think. >>>> >>>> It really depends. >>>> >>>> In most cases users are not able to find minor bugs easily. If the >>>> translated string looks reasonable but it is incorrect, the user will >>>> be >>>> hardly able to find the problem. In most cases to find the minor bug >>>> you >>>> need to compare the English original with the translated sentence. >>>> This >>>> is not a task most users do. >>>> >>>> If it was not easy for translator/reviewer to find the minor bug I do >>>> not believe the bug will be found/reported by an average user. >>>> >>>> The minor bugs can be find only by hard work in the translation team. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > there won't be any users and thus no bug reports. So, I would >>>>> encourage >>>>> > > you to drop the final review stage (now). >>>>> > >>>>> > To have this done I would have to set up more strict rules to become >>>>> a >>>>> > reviewer. I opted for different approach: to allow all members to >>>>> try >>>>> to >>>>> > do the reviewer's job to see how it will go. >>>>> > >>>>> > This allows us to catch at least some bugs by current reviewers. And >>>>> > this brings up a chance for potential good reviewer to show and >>>>> improve >>>>> > his work. In case I would allow to review only members to whom I can >>>>> > trust the proces would slow down even more. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, I see a big problem here. You seem to trust very few people and >>>>> this will cause problems in an open-source projects. You simply need >>>>> to >>>>> trust that people are willing to do good work and they will improve >>>>> over >>>>> time. >>>> >>>> I review their work. My trust is based on observation. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> > This is not like launchpad. I agree. But the difference is not very >>>>> big. >>>>> > To have started a translation you just need to register to the >>>>> Damned >>>>> > Lies, join the team, reserve for translation and submit a po file. >>>>> You >>>>> > can do it in few minutes. I do not know how launchpad works, but I >>>>> think >>>>> > it would be similar easy. >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, but you have a po file then. That's great as it brings you a >>>>> translation for free if the person joins the team or not. There is no >>>>> point in rejecting those translations just because people didn't want >>>>> to >>>>> join the team fully. (Of course, they should fix their stuff when it >>>>> gets reviewed). >>>> >>>> That's true. >>>> Without joining the team the review would be really hard. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also you didn't answer my inital question if you could drop the formal >>>>> introduction mail. >>>> >>>> Sure. I can. But let me elaborate a bit: >>>> >>>> In February 2010 few members of our team created a page where they >>>> summarized several things where the team organization should improve >>>> (acocrding their opinion). The page is here: >>>> >>>> http://live.gnome.org/SlovakTranslation/Others/N%C3%A1vrhy%20na%20zlep%C5%A1enie%20fungovania%20t%C3%ADmu >>>> >>>> Entry #1 is about joining the team. Rough (shortened) translation >>>> follows: >>>> >>>> Simplification of team joining >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Supported by: Peter, Roman, Laco, Ivan. >>>> >>>> Pavol offered improvements for his web form so it can be used as >>>> needed. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In April Pavol finished his work on the web form and I stated that on >>>> the page (rough translation): >>>> >>>> Status as of 2010-04-20: The web form works as expected. I consider >>>> this >>>> issue resolved. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nobody complained. It looked that we solved the issue with the >>>> registration email. >>>> >>>> >>>> About a month after that Peter picked up this as a reason for the >>>> coordinator change. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Unfortunatelly, this is not true. Sometimes the workflow knowledge >>>>> of >>>>> > new members is poor. >>>>> >>>>> They managed to translate and upload the file? What else do they need >>>>> to >>>>> know about the workflow as long as they aren't reviewers/committers? >>>> >>>> At least two things: >>>> 1. To use proper action for upload (if not the translation might be >>>> overlooked by rest of the team). >>>> 2. To reserve/upload again once the translation is returned back by a >>>> reviewer. >>>> >>>>> Please note that translating the file means that you already had to >>>>> setup lots of things. >>>> >>>> Yes. You need to download a file, start a random text editor, edit the >>>> file, and finally upload it. >>>> >>>>> > I agree. Now, we are in process to have such rules set up. >>>>> >>>>> I really wonder that you don't already have translation rules? How did >>>>> you manage to do things in the past? I think every half-way solid >>>>> GTP-Team has at least some list of most-used terms. >>>> >>>> We are going to be a half-way solid GTP-Team hopefuly soon. >>>> >>>>> > > Reviewers will notice when there is an inconsistency within the >>>>> strings >>>>> > > and are able to point that out. I think most teams have no problem >>>>> in >>>>> > > sharing modules between different translators. >>>>> > >>>>> > True. This is why I am doing now final review for all modules. I >>>>> hope >>>>> > this will change soon. >>>>> >>>>> The reviewers != you - trust in them, they know the language! >>>> >>>> This is dangerous definition ("they know the language"). With some >>>> generalization you said that everybody knows his language in a way >>>> you'll trust them regararding the language matter. That is simply not >>>> true. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> > I disagree. It depends. Other translators can select other modules, >>>>> so >>>>> > the rules are same for everybody. >>>>> > >>>>> > Some people does like to feel that this module is their work and >>>>> they >>>>> > are responsible and proud for them. >>>>> >>>>> That's ok, but they should then be able to provide a 100% translation >>>>> by >>>>> release date and if they cannot do that they will have to give up the >>>>> module or at least open it for others. >>>> >>>> This would be true is everything else is at (or near) 100 %, but not >>>> true if you are in the middle and there are plenty of untranslated (and >>>> free) modules. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> +-------------------------------------------+ >>>> | Marcel Telka e-mail: mar...@telka.sk | >>>> | homepage: http://telka.sk/ | >>>> | jabber: mar...@jabber.sk | >>>> +-------------------------------------------+ >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnome-i18n mailing list >>> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnome-i18n mailing list >> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n >> > > > _______________________________________________ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
