On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:33 AM, meg ford <meg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 3:29 AM, Piñeiro <apinhe...@igalia.com> wrote: > >> On 08/28/2012 04:08 AM, meg ford wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:34 AM, meg ford <meg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Here is the documentation for the keyboard shortcuts for navigating >>>> the applications icons [1], although I I think that asking a person with a >>>> physical disability to hold down ctrl and alt while tabbing is >>>> not feasible. Maybe someone else knows of a better solution. >>>> >>>> Well, Ctrl+Alt+Tab is the one used because it was the one used at >>>> GNOME 2. Anyway, there is a work in progress effort in order to define new >>>> keyshortcuts for gnome-shell: >>>> >>>> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeOS/Design/Whiteboards/KeyboardShortcuts >>>> >>>> I suggested them some others, like direct access to the Dash and others. >>>> >>> >>> I honestly don't know that this is a case where a simpler shortcut is >>> necessary, or if it should be considered a case where users need adapted >>> systems. I'll ask around in the accessibility community here and see what >>> people think, and comment there if it seems like the solution we have is >>> not up to standards. >>> >> >> I got a reply from a therapist who also works with kids with >> developmental and physical disabilities, and she also agreed that this >> could be improved. I see from the link that the proposal is to change this >> to tab, which would be much easier to use. >> >> >> Allan Day mentioned that during GUADEC. His proposal is that when you >> move to the overview, one of the main region (like the top panel) would >> receive the focus. Then you could move between regions using tab, and move >> inside a container using the arrows. In order to avoid too many tabs to go >> to a specific regio, we could define shortcuts to move to specific regions >> (ie: a shortcut to move to the Dash), and maintain the Ctrl+Alt+Tab >> switcher as legacy (as some users are still using it). You can see the bug >> that tracks this and the conversation here: >> >> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=681527 >> >> My only doubts right now about this proposal are: >> * Allan mentioned that one of the reasons is being consistent with Gtk. >> But in gtk tab doesn't move to the next container. In most cases Tab and >> right arrow are the same. So not sure if the user could get confused if in >> the shell Tab moves between containers >> * All this could help on the overview, but we would have the same >> issues on the "normal view", although I suppose that the same solution is >> proposed there (but not sure). >> >> As I mention at the comment >> >> It might be a good idea to propose that the shortcuts for switching >> between workspaces also be simple, since that is also difficult for users >> with physical disabilities to use. >> >> >> IMHO, this is a minor problem as you can define the shortcut to switch >> between workspaces. I personally use Ctrl+1, Ctrl+2, etc. The problem with >> the region switcher is that, AFAIK, you couldn't define a custom shortcut. >> Probably adding the possibility to redefine the shortcut would be a good >> feature. >> >> >> Does anyone see a reason for me to not ask for a simple shortcut for >> that >> >> >> FWIW, what is the current (so complex) default shortcut for switching >> between workspaces? I thought that was Ctrl+Arrow key. Which simpler >> shortcut do you have in mind? >> > > The proposal is ctrl+super+down (or up). I understand what you are saying > about custom shortcuts, but I would expect that something commonly used by > people who can't use the mouse should be simple. Having simplicity there > would in no way convenience other users. There are undoubtedly other > considerations (like whether the shortcut is commonly used in > applications), but I don't see why it would hurt to ask for this. The worst > thing that can happen is that we end up maintaining the status quo as > listed on the whiteboard. > >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> Meg Ford >> >>> >>> Thanks for the link, >>> Meg Ford >>> >>>> >>>> BR >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Meg Ford >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html.en >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 1:11 PM, meg ford <meg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The activities overview really doesn't work well for people with >>>>> physical disabilities. Using the mouse to choose an application can be >>>>> very >>>>> tiring, and sometimes impossible for such users. Typing the name of the >>>>> application is also really difficult. Looking here [1] I don't see a way >>>>> to >>>>> navigate the application icons using the keyboard. Maybe that has been >>>>> added and the documentation hasn't been updated? >>>>> >>>>> There is a shell extension that provides a Gnome 2 style >>>>> applications menu [2]. I think this should be easier to use. >>>>> >>>>> Meg Ford >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-apps-open.html.en >>>>> [2] https://extensions.gnome.org/accounts/profile/gcampax >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Dylan McCall >>>>> <dylanmcc...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's a shame about the accident. I'm glad that GNOME and Debian have >>>>>> worked for you until now. >>>>>> >>>>>> The new menus _should_ be accessible. May you please explain what >>>>>> about them isn't working out? I'm sure that would help to improve the >>>>>> implementation. As it is, adding a toggle between the two menu layouts >>>>>> is no simple task: with this menu redesign, the idea of grouping menu >>>>>> items under things like "Edit" and "View" is going to drift away, so >>>>>> even if the bits were in place it would be quite difficult to change >>>>>> it back (especially dynamically). >>>>>> >>>>>> If I was to guess, the biggest problem for keyboard-accessibility is >>>>>> that the menus don't open with F10, so you have to reach them with >>>>>> Tab. Is that the gist of the problem? That might be something to >>>>>> mandate in the HIG (and maybe add at the toolkit level), because it >>>>>> _is_ quite surprising. Google Chrome, for example, is keyboard >>>>>> accessible: its wrench menu can be opened with the usual mnemonics >>>>>> (Alt+F or Alt+E). They forgot that F10 is the _real_ common >>>>>> menu-opening shortcut, but they did try :) >>>>>> >>>>>> If you haven't already found it, the keyboard shortcut to get the >>>>>> application menu (beside Activities at the top left of the screen) is >>>>>> Super+F10. You can also use the left and right arrow keys to get >>>>>> anywhere else on the top bar. Do you find that one works okay? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dylan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 9:29 AM, surma <su...@hot.ee> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I’ve been using debian since 27 March of 1996, before gnome >>>>>> everything was quite crappy, but I started using gnome 11 June 2000, and >>>>>> linux turned easy. Then (2004/2005) I had a terrible car accident, I got >>>>>> rammed, then I spent 6 months in coma, which messed up my hands, so I >>>>>> can’t >>>>>> use mouse, that’s why I prefer keyboard. Maake a place under gconf-editor >>>>>> where you can choose the style of menu, so people can use either classic >>>>>> or >>>>>> modern style. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > That’s why I can’t use mouse. >>>>>> > http://www.hot.ee/surma/Surma_24.12.05.jpg >>>>>> > I built this car myself … and had an accident with it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > This is what was left of my car. >>>>>> > http://www.hot.ee/surma/katki.jpg >>>>>> > Tanel >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > gnome-accessibility-list mailing list >>>>>> > gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org >>>>>> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list >>>>>> gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org >>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnome-accessibility-list mailing >>>> listgnome-accessibility-list@gnome.orghttps://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnome-accessibility-list mailing list >>>> gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org >>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Alejandro Piñeiro Iglesias >> >> >
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