On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Brian Dolbec <dol...@gentoo.org> wrote: > > Why must it become yet another shouting match. And I'm sorry to have to > tell you this, but you have been leading the charge in that direction. >
Fair enough. I'll admit that this has been a lot of venting for me, and an unnecessary distraction for everybody else. Ulm's post and discussion with xiaomiao on #gentoo-dev have made me reconsider my attitude towards this. The reality is that this change really only impacts non-systemd users, so the question really should be what provides the best experience for these users. I think there are legitimate arguments for either udev or eudev from that standpoint, but I think we need to view them through the lens of what is better for those who would prefer not to use systemd (and that isn't limited to openrc, though I don't know that this distinction matters). For those who prefer to use systemd it is a moot point. To ulm's point virtual/dev-manager probably should be a part of @system (even if the provider is only the minimal static device nodes) - a posix system really isn't usable without anything in /dev. Whichever provider is the default for that virtual might be a good topic of discussion, but it is not a true dependency for this decision, and I should not make it into one. I still think we'd be well-served to get service managers out of @system as well - another good topic of discussion, but again not a true dependency for this decision. Gentoo is and has always been about choice. That is something I will always support. Personally this has been an area of frustration for me. I get that many have come to Gentoo as a refuge from systemd (as well as other things). I think it is a good thing that we can offer them that choice, and I've always supported eudev having a home in Gentoo for that reason. However, I really do think that systemd largely represents the future for linux distros. It will of course evolve over time, and perhaps some day it will be replaced, but I think that what it changes into is going to look a lot more like systemd than the things that came before. I don't think we really do ourselves a service by clinging to the old ways, and I don't think avoiding systemd as either a default or a recommended configuration really improves our reputation or the user experience. And that is the frustration that caused me to lash out a bit on this topic. However, this really isn't appropriate. This isn't holding back systemd, and doesn't really have anything to do with systemd at all. This is about making Gentoo better for people who have made the choice not to use systemd, and that isn't something any of us should be holding back. If I want to make things better for systemd users there are plenty of areas that I could better invest this energy. So, thanks for bearing with me. -- Rich
