On Mon, December 17, 2012 22:31, Greg KH wrote: > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:03:40PM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: >> Olav Vitters <o...@vitters.nl> wrote: >> >> >On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:29:26AM -0500, Richard Yao wrote: >> >> As I said in an earlier email, Lennart Poettering claims that it does >> >> not work. We are discussing some of the things necessary to make it >> >work. >> > >> >Just to repeat: >> >In this thread it was claimed that a separate /usr is not supported by >> >systemd/udev. >> > >> >A case which works with latest systemd on various distributions. I >> >checked with upstream (not Lennart), and they confirmed it works. I can >> >wait for Lennart to say the same, but really not needed. >> > >> >I assume this will again turn into a "but I meant something else". >> >> Olav. >> >> Lennart has stated that he considers a seperate /usr without init* >> broken. > > Yes, as do I, and so do a lot of other developers.
It is only "broken", because upstream decided to move everything into /usr that was previously in /. > But that is a system configuration issue, not a systemd issue, please > don't confuse the two. systemd does some interesting things, but I prefer those in a seperate proces, not in PID-1. But that is a different discussion. >> This has worked correctly in the past. > > Define "past" please. Recent past, like a few months ago no errors during boot and the system running stable. Please provide a simple way to let me see that it is broken on systems that do not use bluetooth keyboards. The requirement of having userspace working to have input devices working seems to be related to bluetooth, not to USB or PS/2 keyboards. And using a bluetooth connection to access a NFS share is, in my humble opinion, a corner case that requires additional work to make it work. > Note, it's still broken, I have yet to see any upstream fixes to resolve > all of the issues that are involved here with "fixing" this up. Reverting back to an older version makes it work. Using "mdev" also works. > Yes, as always, for some subset of users, you can be lucky and it will > work for them, but those systems are getting rarer and rarer these days, > as the rest of upstream (not systemd here) are moving on and not doing > anything to change their behavior for this topic. Why rarer? Any system I can buy in a random shop will work using a seperate /usr, provided the software is installed sanely. By moving everything into /usr, this brokenness is forced upon users. >> The direction udev development is going, according to Lennart, is to >> make that impossible and he refuses to fix this regression. > > Again, this has NOTHING to do with udev or systemd, as has been pointed > out numerous times. I understand your _wish_ that it would have > something to do with it, but that will not change the facts, sorry. Then what does it have to do with? When it was made public that it is considered "broken", the news came from udev-upstream. This was before most systems encountered any breakage. >> I am really happy with this project and intend on testing it once >> requests for this appear in the eudev mailing list. > > Good luck, the root problems still remain, and nothing that eudev ever > does can resolve that, sorry. > > Can this topic finally be put to rest please? There is a whole web page > devoted to this topic, why do people blindly ignore it? Where is this page? I've read the page written by Lennart. Is there a decent (as in, going into detail why it is broken and what it is caused by) analysis about the "problem"? > Again, a separate /usr without an initrd has NOTHING to do with systemd > or udev, with the minor exception that Gentoo's packaging of those > programs _might_ have an issue, but that is Gentoo's issue, NOT > upstream's issue. > > If anyone involved with eudev, or is involved with the Gentoo Council > thinks that the previous paragraph is incorrect, they are flat out > wrong. I have yet to hear about a clear explanation why a seperate /usr is broken apart from the use of bluetooth keyboards. (Which are still in the minority when I check local shops/webstores) -- Joost
