Since you wanted to bring this onto this mailing list, I will address all of the points you are making here, though I don't believe this to be the correct place.
To preface the whole thing, I was really trying to understand your viewpoint and help make things better, but you were either not understanding what I was saying because of some language issue or something else. Instead of trying to understand me, you took it as some sort of personal attack for some reason. I don't understand why you did, or why you believe I was being "annoying" or "boring" (those were your words last night). So, now onto addressing what you have said. Fabio Erculiani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > [02:31] <Halcy0n> lxnay: we offer all of our work that you base your > distribution off, and you don't contribute back at all, in any way. > > ^^ This is a really stupid sentence. It seems some of you don't even > realize how many users we brought to Gentoo, and this is really sad. I wish you would realize that the work all of the Gentoo developers (and users and outside contributors) has done for your distribution. It is entirely based upon our work, and we would really appreciate it if when you find a problem, you report it to us. We want to provide quality packages, but if no one tells us of when there is a problem, we can't do anything. Also, the one statement of mine that you decided to pull out should be put into a little bit of context: <quote from #gentoo-dev from last night> 21:26:46 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: I entered #gentoo-portage, found zmedico, talked about the issue, he wrote a patch in less than 1 hour and committed 21:27:06 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: I got the issue solved in less than 3 hours 21:27:17 <+lxnay> if I had to use bugzilla 21:27:26 <+lxnay> it'd have took me days, if not dozen of days 21:27:31 <@hparker> He woulda seen the bug and fixed it... 21:27:41 <@Betelgeuse> yeah 21:27:42 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: I'm not understanding what you are trying to show me. Sometimes you can get in touch with someone on IRC, othertimes you need to use bugzilla. 21:27:55 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: and it would have taken Zac just about the same amount of time. He's quick to respond to things like that anyway. 21:28:19 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: What if zac didn't reply to you iin #g-portage? What would you have done then? 21:28:40 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: I just wanted to tell you, I don't have time to wait (dozen of days) and I always end up forking. and you will never see my fixes, that's a pity for gentoo 21:29:03 <@jkt|> lxnay: but that's entirely your choice, not our flaw 21:29:10 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: he always replied me in a matter of hours 21:29:23 <+lxnay> jkt|: it is if your dev take that much to fix a silly bug 21:29:24 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: so, if you couldn't find Zac on IRC? What would you have done then? Just gone and fixed it on your side? 21:30:01 <@jkt|> lxnay: are you to blame us if we don't fix bugs in less than one week? now this is funny 21:30:07 <+lxnay> sometimes my bugs got closed just because the maintainer didn't find them valid 21:30:09 <@Halcy0n> jkt|: shhh, I'm trying to find out something. 21:30:20 <+lxnay> if someone comes to you and say, I have a problem with X 21:30:31 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: please...if you can't find a dev on IRC, what do you do? 21:30:36 <+lxnay> you should answer, I'll get this fixed asap, as I always do :) 21:30:47 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: I fork the ebuild 21:30:53 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: that's very sad. 21:30:59 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: it's not my fault 21:31:04 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: yes it is completely your fault. 21:31:08 <@jkt|> lxnay: well, it is. 21:31:12 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: no it isn't 21:31:15 <+lxnay> why? 21:31:21 <+lxnay> you make mistakes 21:31:21 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: we offer all of our work that you base your distribution off, and you don't contribute back at all, in any way. 21:31:23 <+lxnay> then it's my fault? 21:31:35 <+lxnay> Halcy0n: yeah of course... 21:31:43 <@jkt|> nope, your fault is not reporting them to us in a reasonable way 21:31:46 <@Halcy0n> lxnay: the fact that you don't contribute it back upstream is, and if that's the attitude you are going to take, then I am done with this conversation as I don't see it going in a positive direction. </quote> Just so everyone can see the what led up to my comment, and hopefully understand exactly where it is coming from. Maybe it could have been phrased differently, but I find it very sad when someone is completely unwilling to use our bug tracking system to even try to get a problem fixed. Not all Gentoo devs are on IRC, and we all have other jobs and families that we must take care of. We can't fix bugs within hours all of the time. If you start paying us, then maybe that would change :) > You see, people like Halcy0n, agaffney, zlin keep us away from > interacting with you. Who is "us"? If you have instances where I have made it difficult for any user to approach me and have me help them with a problem, I would love to know. The same goes for everyone else, please contact me privately if you have a problem with me and feel you can't atleast work with me to solve an issue. I'm not asking if you like me or not, but if you feel you can have atleast a civil relationship to get Gentoo work done. > This is not a democratic way, let's talk > publicly here, without hiding in a development channel, we probably > get more visibility, don't we? This is probably not the correct venue to have a conversation about this as it has nothing to do with development. If I have offended you in some way, you can contact User Relations or Developer Relations and let them know (same goes for anyone else as well, to complain about, or be the complainant). Thanks, -- Mark Loeser email - halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org email - mark AT halcy0n DOT com web - http://www.halcy0n.com
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