It's a radical proposal - but I think it would only work well where the champion/mentors are also from same community - e.g. the kind of "Already lots of Apache folks" projects that we previously suggested for the straight-to-PLP mode. There's also the danger of the project to seem hostile to non-Apache folks - and if the project has not already have a well-working contributor model; then activity will die out as it would have almost no committers.
But choreographed well by the mentors - who would then have to be almost like a "project coach" - it could turn to a very open model as everyone on the list would feel they have a large say of project decisions. Some open source projects work well like this on GitHub today - with a very small set of people using commit rights and all activity done through pull requests. Perhaps the radical mini-PMC model could be good for those - working out who "is" and "isn't" a committer in ASF sense can be tricky for such projects - as you would have to go through all the discussions on all pull requests - code review and "helping" in design decisions is also part of being a committer! Just to note - one advantage of the "emeritus committers allowed" for a long-standing community (e.g. Netbeans - although I think we're happy with Netbeans proposal now!) is that those people will carry with them history and opinions - and could still work well with the PMC hat on even if they don't commit a single line of code - acting almost like an Advisory Board for the project. Another is that moving to Apache is not required to be a hard-reset - so just as Apache projects don't tend to vote out dormant committers (but they might voluntarily retire) - so if a long-running project moves to ASF it should not have to 'shed' committers. On 27 September 2016 at 16:43, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> wrote: > +0.5 I like this idea a lot (but there are governance problems to be solved). > > I have long been frustrated at folks who jump on the bandwagon and become > initial committers then play no further part in the project. > > Do inactive committers harm the project? No, of course they don’t. But it > isn’t fair to those who get in by pulling their weight. > > Now, those inactive committers should be removed when the project graduates, > right? No, in my experience they get to be PMC members. The project is too > polite to throw people out (especially what they perceive as “Apache VIPs”). > > And while I’m on that topic: I believe that mentors should not automatically > become PMC members when the project graduates. > > Julian > > >> On Sep 27, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The NetBeans proposal (among many others in the past) has demonstrated a >> significant "problem" with trying to establish an appropriate list of >> initial committers. There are many people that want to be on, for various >> reasons. Because they are committers, recent or historic. Or they want the >> "prestige" to be there. Some people believe they "deserve" to be on the >> list. etc etc >> >> Establishing the list is particularly difficult for large and old >> communities. >> >> But. What if we just said "no such list" ? >> >> This will shift the initial voting of committers upon the Champion/Mentors >> who will construct the entirety of the PPMC. But hey: aren't they supposed >> to be involved? Aren't they supposed to demonstrate how to earn merit, and >> the committership that results? >> >> This would also solve the problem of initial committers that have not >> established any merit whatsoever. We've had many situations where people >> simply add themselves to the list. Why? Cuz they chose to do so. It is sort >> of silently allowed for IPMC members to add themselves. "I wanna join!" >> BAM. It happens. >> >> So yeah. Radical thought: NO initial list. The PPMC is just the Champion + >> Mentors. They will build the committers and PPMC according to merit. (note: >> this could be *very* fast for a particular few highly-engaged with bringing >> the project to the ASF) >> >> ??? >> >> Cheers, >> -g > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > -- Stian Soiland-Reyes http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
